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Started By
Message
re: Someone Please Explain How Jerome Powell Is Any Different Than Previous Fed Chairmen?
Posted on 10/8/18 at 5:09 pm to LSURussian
Posted on 10/8/18 at 5:09 pm to LSURussian
quote:
I gave you a link because I referred to historical events that are not commonly known about. Based on your previous ignorant posts I knew you wouldn't know about them so I tried to teach you something. And yet, you refuse to acknowledge the information I provided other than to say I gave you a link. Why is that?
You posted a link to history that everyone here already knows. Thanks for stating the obvious. That’s still not what I asked for.
quote:
One more time: Do you believe that recessions, depressions and financial panics only started happening in the U.S. after the Federal Reserve was created? Yes or no. If you answer no, then you realize you earlier comment about the Fed being the reason those types of events happen is really, really dumb.
No. I said the fed exacerbated inflations and recessions. You have a bad memory.
You’re just proving your own statist, socialist points wrong anyway. The greatest depression happened during the federal reserve’s tenure not before. It’s proven to be a worthless federal agency like the rest of them.
quote:
One more time, do you disagree with the four examples I gave, yes or no. And if you do disagree, please tell me why you disagree.
I agree those things happen because of the inflation that the federal reserve creates.
This post was edited on 10/8/18 at 5:10 pm
1
Posted on 10/8/18 at 5:15 pm to Trump_Gump
quote:Wrong again. The financial panic and depression of 1815-1821 was worse and lasted longer than the 1929-1933 depression. That depression of 1815-1921 almost caused the U.S. government to default on its obligations. That hasn't happened again since then.
We had recessions and depressions before the fed and have had the greatest depression of all time after the federal reserve act
The Panic of 1873 was so severe that the New York Stock Exchange closed for 10 trading days. It's estimated that 18,000 U.S. businesses failed over 1873 & 1874, which was almost 10% of the total businesses in the country then. That depression lasted for 6 years and was so severe it was the first American depression to spread to Europe in what British history books refer to as the "Long Depression" for Great Britain. In the U.S. it was called the "Great Depression" before the 1929 depression was called by that term.
The U.S. has had two financial panics in the 105 years since the Federal Reserve was created in 1913, one in 1929 and the recent one in 2008/2009.
Compare that to 8 financial panics in the U.S. in the 88 years from 1819 to 1907.
The Fed, just like any institution, does not always succeed in carrying out its mandates. But it has definitely been successful at decreasing the number and severity of depressions and financial panics than in the century before it was created.
You really should study the history before you make silly and untrue statements.
Posted on 10/8/18 at 5:15 pm to Trump_Gump
quote:You may or may not realize you are cherry picking. Current Fed Board Members readily acknowledge the Fed's role in the Great Depression. That is normally an indication of change in approach.
We had recessions and depressions before the fed and have had the greatest depression of all time after the federal reserve act
You acknowledge recessions/depressions occurred independent of the Fed. So we know flat out that economic downturns occur independent of the Fed. We know they were more frequent prior to the Fed.
Do you also acknowledge the Fed's role in preventing a Depression in 2008?
Posted on 10/8/18 at 5:16 pm to LSURussian
quote:
What do you mean by "manipulate our money"?
It’s amazing how you have such an elementary grasp of macroeconomic concepts and the federal reserve system for someone your age.
Posted on 10/8/18 at 5:20 pm to Trump_Gump
quote:It wasn't obvious to YOU. See my post above.
You posted a link to history that everyone here already knows. Thanks for stating the obvious.
quote:And you're wrong about that, too. See my post above.
I said the fed exacerbated inflations and recessions.
quote:If you're referring to the 1929 depression, you're wrong again. See my post above. The 1929 depression was the second "Great Depression." Learn about the economic history of the U.S.
The greatest depression happened during the federal reserve’s tenure not before.
quote:None of those four examples I listed are "because of inflation." None.
One more time, do you disagree with the four examples I gave, yes or no. And if you do disagree, please tell me why you disagree.
I agree those things happen because of the inflation that the federal reserve creates.
You're just rambling now without making sense.
It appears you're just parroting either ZeroHedge or some Mises crap rather than actually understanding what you're talking about.
Posted on 10/8/18 at 5:22 pm to Trump_Gump
quote:Okay, you answer my question then. What does he mean by "manipulate our money"?
What do you mean by "manipulate our money"?
It’s amazing how you have such an elementary grasp of macroeconomic concepts and the federal reserve system for someone your age.
I seriously doubt you can do it without copying and pasting something. And even then you'll be wrong.
Posted on 10/8/18 at 5:26 pm to NC_Tigah
quote:
You may or may not realize you are cherry picking.
What am I cherry picking?
quote:
Current Fed Board Members readily acknowledge the Fed's role in the Great Depression. That is normally an indication of change in approach.
Do they acknowledge their role in the great recesssion?
quote:
You acknowledge recessions/depressions occurred independent of the Fed. So we know flat out that economic downturns occur independent of the Fed.
Do you not remember when I said the fed exacerbates recessions and inflation? It’s true. The great depression is far far worse than any of the miniature panics in the late 1800s. The United States enjoyed one if it’s greatest periods of economic growth after the civil war without the federal reserve. The fed has proven itself to be another impotent federal government organization. I’m not sure how you can claim to be a “conservative” yet vehemently defend it.
quote:
Do you also acknowledge the Fed's role in preventing a Depression in 2008?
I acknowledge that they helped cause it.
In 2006-2007 Bernanke deliberately inverted the Treasury yield curve, even while knowing it would cause a recession and credit-financial crisis. Second, he imposed on the reeling economy a $1.7 trillion flood of quantitative easing. His first policy caused economic stagnation and his second policy caused monetary inflation.
Posted on 10/8/18 at 5:34 pm to Trump_Gump
quote:That is factually incorrect. We hear more about the 1929 Depression just because communications had improved so much over the 19th century communications and because some people who lived through it are still alive today, but two depressions in the 19th century, the Panic of 1815 and the Panic of 1873 were worse in severity and length of time before there was an economic recovery.
The great depression is far far worse than any of the miniature panics in the late 1800s.
And the post-Civil War inflation in the U.S. was far worse than any time period since the Fed was created.
Those are just historical facts. Not opinions.
Posted on 10/8/18 at 5:36 pm to Trump_Gump
quote:Helped cause a Depression? Read the post carefully. Do you also acknowledge the Fed's role in preventing a Depression in 2008?
Do you also acknowledge the Fed's role in preventing a Depression in 2008?
I acknowledge that they helped cause it.
quote:There you go again. Can you differentiate the economic effects of QE vs a sub-1.5% funds rate within a 4% growth environment?
Second, he imposed on the reeling economy a $1.7 trillion flood of quantitative easing.
Posted on 10/8/18 at 5:37 pm to Trump_Gump
quote:
In 2006-2007 Bernanke deliberately inverted the Treasury yield curve, even while knowing it would cause a recession and credit-financial crisis. Second, he imposed on the reeling economy a $1.7 trillion flood of quantitative easing. His first policy caused economic stagnation and his second policy caused monetary inflation.
I'm sorry. You're delusional in addition to being ignorant. Something that happened so recently should not be giving you so much difficulty remembering.
The Fed was fighting DEFLATION as a result of the 2008/2009 recession. The Fed wanted some inflation.
I'm actually starting to think you don't know the difference between inflation and deflation.
Posted on 10/8/18 at 5:39 pm to Trump_Gump
quote:
What am I cherry picking?
Fed roles !929 vs 2008?
Impact of low gov Funds rates, for example Australia vs Japan?
Posted on 10/8/18 at 5:43 pm to Trump_Gump
quote:
The United States enjoyed one if it’s greatest periods of economic growth after the civil war
Half the country was in ruins. All of the banks in that half of the country went bankrupt. The people's money in that half of the country became worthless. The population in that half of the country was literally starving for two years after the war ended. The country's economy bumped along until it completely collapsed in 1873 in what became known as the "Great Depression."
I'm done with you. You're just too ignorant to argue with once you start making up "facts".
Posted on 10/8/18 at 5:59 pm to LSURussian
quote:
ote:
In 2006-2007 Bernanke deliberately inverted the Treasury yield curve, even while knowing it would cause a recession and credit-financial crisis. Second, he imposed on the reeling economy a $1.7 trillion flood of quantitative easing. His first policy caused economic stagnation and his second policy caused monetary inflation.
I'm sorry. You're delusional in addition to being ignorant. Something that happened so recently should not be giving you so much difficulty remembering.
The Fed was fighting DEFLATION as a result of the 2008/2009 recession. The Fed wanted some inflation.
I'm actually starting to think you don't know the difference between inflation and deflation.
Learn how to use sources Russian.
This post was edited on 10/8/18 at 6:00 pm
Posted on 10/8/18 at 8:09 pm to Trump_Gump
So you copied and pasted someone’s opinion? And then didn’t post a link??
Posted on 10/8/18 at 8:28 pm to LSURussian
quote:Here it is by the way:
So you copied and pasted someone’s opinion? And then didn’t post a link??
How Bernanke's Fed Triggered the Great Recession
While I’ve seen criticisms for his failure to see it coming, I think it’s a bit much to say he is to blame for a crisis that was a result of many failures that began well before he was appointed, weren’t exclusive to monetary policies, and weren’t exclusive to the US either.
Posted on 10/8/18 at 8:41 pm to Trump_Gump
And looking at the federal funds rate history:
And looking at the federal funds rate history, the rate increased from 1% in 05/31/04 to 4.5% on 01/31/06, Greenspan’s last day as the chairman. Once Bernanke took over this increased over the next couple months at roughly with essentially the same trend line until peaking at 5.25%.
So why is the author putting all of the blame on Bernanke when his predecessor increased it rapidly, and if I recall correctly (and more importantly), at a time when people had been taking a low introductory/short-term adjustable rate mortgages, which unlike fixed rate mortgages, are influenced by changes in short-term interest rates—a major factor in the housing crash?
So the initially low rate of borrowing, and unlike the gradual increase in present day, a sudden increase in rates were major factors, fundamentally different than how you’ve argued.
Macrotrends: Federal Fund Rate History
And looking at the federal funds rate history, the rate increased from 1% in 05/31/04 to 4.5% on 01/31/06, Greenspan’s last day as the chairman. Once Bernanke took over this increased over the next couple months at roughly with essentially the same trend line until peaking at 5.25%.
So why is the author putting all of the blame on Bernanke when his predecessor increased it rapidly, and if I recall correctly (and more importantly), at a time when people had been taking a low introductory/short-term adjustable rate mortgages, which unlike fixed rate mortgages, are influenced by changes in short-term interest rates—a major factor in the housing crash?
So the initially low rate of borrowing, and unlike the gradual increase in present day, a sudden increase in rates were major factors, fundamentally different than how you’ve argued.
Macrotrends: Federal Fund Rate History
This post was edited on 10/8/18 at 8:54 pm
Posted on 10/8/18 at 8:53 pm to buckeye_vol
From reading that article, and knowing now the author of it is an asset allocation guy, it sounds like he’s looking for a scapegoat for losing a shite-load of his clients’ money during the recession.
The recession can be blamed on a number of players from the credit rating agencies, FNMA, FHMC, AIG, mortgage bankers making loans they knew would never be repaid and congress for passing the CRA. The Fed probably had the least amount of culpability of any of those.
The stupid gump wants it both ways. He blames the Fed for inflation but when the Fed raised short term rates in 2005, 2006 and 2007 (when inflation rose above the Fed’s target 2% level...3.4% in 2005, 3.2% in 2006 and 2.8% in 2007), in order to bring inflation down, he wants to say Bernanke deliberately inverted the yield curve in the first few months he was on the job in order to create a financial crisis. What a crock!
The recession can be blamed on a number of players from the credit rating agencies, FNMA, FHMC, AIG, mortgage bankers making loans they knew would never be repaid and congress for passing the CRA. The Fed probably had the least amount of culpability of any of those.
The stupid gump wants it both ways. He blames the Fed for inflation but when the Fed raised short term rates in 2005, 2006 and 2007 (when inflation rose above the Fed’s target 2% level...3.4% in 2005, 3.2% in 2006 and 2.8% in 2007), in order to bring inflation down, he wants to say Bernanke deliberately inverted the yield curve in the first few months he was on the job in order to create a financial crisis. What a crock!
This post was edited on 10/8/18 at 8:55 pm
Posted on 10/8/18 at 8:59 pm to LSURussian
quote:Well that’s the part that that stood out to me. Why wouldn’t he just argue that the policy made the inversion more likely, instead of making a claim like “he deliberately did it” as if it’s not possible to have undesirable options to choose from, neither of which could prevent an impending problem.
he wants to say Bernanke deliberately inverted the yield curve in order to create a financial crisis. What a crock!
It just seems like a fallacious post-hoc analysis, made worse by unnecessarily adding some nefarious intent to it. Not to mention, we KNOW there were so many other failings, that began far before Bernanke was the chair, and far outside his control, that scapegoating him is just too obvious to ignore unless of course it conveniently helps some poor argument.
This post was edited on 10/8/18 at 9:06 pm
Posted on 10/8/18 at 9:54 pm to LSURussian
quote:
From reading that article, and knowing now the author of it is an asset allocation guy, it sounds like he’s looking for a scapegoat for losing a shite-load of his clients’ money during the recession. The recession can be blamed on a number of players from the credit rating agencies, FNMA, FHMC, AIG, mortgage bankers making loans they knew would never be repaid and congress for passing the CRA. The Fed probably had the least amount of culpability of any of those. The stupid gump wants it both ways. He blames the Fed for inflation but when the Fed raised short term rates in 2005, 2006 and 2007 (when inflation rose above the Fed’s target 2% level...3.4% in 2005, 3.2% in 2006 and 2.8% in 2007), in order to bring inflation down, he wants to say Bernanke deliberately inverted the yield curve in the first few months he was on the job in order to create a financial crisis. What a crock!
Sweet meltdown
Posted on 10/8/18 at 10:18 pm to Trump_Gump
You got smoked in this thread. I’ve enjoyed reading it. Please continue.
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