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re: Sharpton upset at R Congressman’s claim that US is a Republic, not Democracy

Posted on 8/5/23 at 12:13 pm to
Posted by RogerTheShrubber
Juneau, AK
Member since Jan 2009
299705 posts
Posted on 8/5/23 at 12:13 pm to
quote:

I’ll go with what Ben Franklin said


The closest you can get to a Democracy here is a "representative democracy" but even then its not totally accurate.

I would say our system is Democratic, but our type of governance is a republic.

The continued obfuscation is to confuse the unknowledgeable so when the constitution is dead, they'll rejoice.
This post was edited on 8/5/23 at 12:15 pm
Posted by AggieHank86
Texas
Member since Sep 2013
44345 posts
Posted on 8/5/23 at 12:34 pm to
quote:

and to the Republic, for which it stands...with liberty and justic
Yes, a representative democracy in the form of a constitutional federal republic. are you thinking that you were making some point that has not already been discussed in the preceding pages?

even if that were not the case, however, what is the relevance of a free verse poem written by a socialist 100 years after ratification of the constitution?
This post was edited on 8/5/23 at 1:00 pm
Posted by wackatimesthree
Member since Oct 2019
13485 posts
Posted on 8/5/23 at 1:10 pm to
quote:

someone should tell BOTH of those yahoos that the United States is both a “democracy“ and “republic.“ A republic is one of several FORMS of democracy.


Yet there is an important distinction and the entire reason for the specificity of the word "republic."

Both penguins and hummingbirds are birds, but there are important differences between them. Thus why we have specific names for each of them instead of just calling both of them birds.

In this case, the important difference is that in a pure democracy, mob rule is law. This is important because the left has implied that our system should work that way although it was never designed to do so, and they've done it for a long time. They act like they are using those terms carelessly and interchangeably, but it's very deliberate. It's why they bristle if you correct them.

They did the same thing with the terms "health care" and "health insurance."
This post was edited on 8/5/23 at 1:14 pm
Posted by LSUconvert
Hattiesburg, MS
Member since Aug 2007
6622 posts
Posted on 8/5/23 at 1:17 pm to
quote:

True democracies have no constitution to protect you from the mob.


This definition is irrelevant, no one is claiming this country is a True Democracy.

A democracy and a republic are not mutually exclusives. I understand why you're having such an extreme emotional reaction to this country being called a democracy, but try and keep it to the facts.

The United States is a democracy. The United States is a republic.

Both are true.
This post was edited on 8/5/23 at 1:21 pm
Posted by RogerTheShrubber
Juneau, AK
Member since Jan 2009
299705 posts
Posted on 8/5/23 at 1:20 pm to
quote:

True democracies have no constitution to protect you from the mob.


Where are you pulling this definition from?


the literal definition.
quote:

Direct democracy or pure democracy is a form of democracy in which the electorate decides on policy initiatives without elected representatives as proxies.


They used to require civics in 9th grade, damned if you didn't drop out in the 8th.

quote:

LINK


If you have a constitution, you do not have a true democracy.
This post was edited on 8/5/23 at 1:23 pm
Posted by LSUconvert
Hattiesburg, MS
Member since Aug 2007
6622 posts
Posted on 8/5/23 at 1:21 pm to
quote:

They used to require civics in 9th grade, damned if you didn't drop out in the 8th.


I can't imagine what kind of school you went to that taught you that Republic and Democracy are mutually exclusive
Posted by LSUconvert
Hattiesburg, MS
Member since Aug 2007
6622 posts
Posted on 8/5/23 at 1:22 pm to
quote:

The closest you can get to a Democracy here is a "representative democracy" but even then its not totally accurate.




Roger thinks the United States isn't a representative democracy.

Yikes, man. That's embarrassing.
This post was edited on 8/5/23 at 1:23 pm
Posted by RogerTheShrubber
Juneau, AK
Member since Jan 2009
299705 posts
Posted on 8/5/23 at 1:23 pm to
quote:



I can't imagine what kind of school you went to that taught you that Republic and Democracy are mutually exclusive


They aren't, if you could read this thread you'd see its been laid out clearly.

Posted by RogerTheShrubber
Juneau, AK
Member since Jan 2009
299705 posts
Posted on 8/5/23 at 1:23 pm to
quote:



Roger thinks the United States isn't a representative democracy.


Its not a true democracy or pure democracy. Constitutions are anti democratic.

Youre not a smart person.
This post was edited on 8/5/23 at 1:25 pm
Posted by LSUconvert
Hattiesburg, MS
Member since Aug 2007
6622 posts
Posted on 8/5/23 at 1:25 pm to
quote:

Its not a true democracy or pure democracy.


Who cares? It's a democracy.

Why are you moving the goal posts to include a True Democracy when that isn't in the OP, or anywhere else until YOU brought it up?

Just admit the United States is a democracy and this whole embarrassing situation for you can end.
Posted by RogerTheShrubber
Juneau, AK
Member since Jan 2009
299705 posts
Posted on 8/5/23 at 1:26 pm to
quote:




Everyone

[quote]It's a democracy.


Its a quasi democracy.

We are a representative constitutional republic.
This post was edited on 8/5/23 at 1:27 pm
Posted by AggieHank86
Texas
Member since Sep 2013
44345 posts
Posted on 8/5/23 at 1:28 pm to
quote:

Both penguins and hummingbirds are birds, but there are important differences between them. Thus why we have specific names for each of them instead of just calling both of them birds.
Good Lord

in your analogy:
“democracy“ equals “Bird.“
“Hummingbird“ equals “direct democracy”
“Penguin” equals “representative democracy“ (including republics).
Posted by RogerTheShrubber
Juneau, AK
Member since Jan 2009
299705 posts
Posted on 8/5/23 at 1:29 pm to
quote:

Yikes, man. That's embarrassing.


Define a pure democracy.

Do it
Posted by AggieHank86
Texas
Member since Sep 2013
44345 posts
Posted on 8/5/23 at 1:31 pm to
quote:

They aren't, if you could read this thread you'd see its been laid out clearly.
By people who would clearly flunk Political Science 101.
Posted by LSUconvert
Hattiesburg, MS
Member since Aug 2007
6622 posts
Posted on 8/5/23 at 1:31 pm to
quote:

Its a quasi democracy.

We are a representative constitutional republic.


You were so close to the truth.

It's not a quasi democracy. It's a Democracy.

It's also a representative constitutional republic.

Again, not mutually exclusive like you seem to want to imply.
Posted by RogerTheShrubber
Juneau, AK
Member since Jan 2009
299705 posts
Posted on 8/5/23 at 1:32 pm to
quote:

It's not a quasi democracy. It's a Democracy.


Ive asked several times, without googling, define true democracy.
Posted by LSUconvert
Hattiesburg, MS
Member since Aug 2007
6622 posts
Posted on 8/5/23 at 1:32 pm to
quote:

Define a pure democracy.


If you can explain to me why it would be relevant I would love to.
Posted by LSUconvert
Hattiesburg, MS
Member since Aug 2007
6622 posts
Posted on 8/5/23 at 1:33 pm to
quote:

Ive asked several times, without googling, define true democracy.


What does defining a True Democracy have to do with whether or not this country is a Democracy? Surely you're not simple that you think anyone would argue the United States is a True Democracy?



You used to contribute something meaningful to this board a decade ago, now look at you.
Posted by RogerTheShrubber
Juneau, AK
Member since Jan 2009
299705 posts
Posted on 8/5/23 at 1:35 pm to
quote:


If you can explain to me why it would be relevant I would love to.



So youre arguing something that you have absolutely no clue what it is about.

quote:

Direct democracy or pure democracy is a form of democracy in which the electorate decides on policy initiatives without elected representatives as proxies.


If you have representatives, if you have a constitution, you do not have a real democracy. You have a representative form of government, and ours is a Republic.

Constitutions thwart the will of the people, and for good reason. They are considered anti democratic, as they protect the minority from the majority.
Posted by LSUconvert
Hattiesburg, MS
Member since Aug 2007
6622 posts
Posted on 8/5/23 at 1:37 pm to
quote:

If you have representatives, if you have a constitution, you do not have a real democracy.


Incorrect.

Again, you're under the assumption that republic and democracy are mutually exclusive. I don't know why you can't understand such a basic concept but it's been laid out for you repeatedly in this thread.

Why do you think they are mutually exclusive? Do you understand that the United States is not a True Democracy? That no one would argue that? That you're insistence on using this term is not only irrelevant but actively harming your own ability to learn about a subject you're so clearly lacking in?
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