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re: Science Increasingly Makes the Case for God--WSJ--Eric Metaxas
Posted on 1/1/15 at 3:56 pm to boosiebadazz
Posted on 1/1/15 at 3:56 pm to boosiebadazz
quote:
that is absolutely an affirmative, declarative statement.
Saying there is not something isnt a positive assertion. Thats just a fact.
3
Posted on 1/1/15 at 3:58 pm to Hester Carries
He is putting forth the notion that the idea (no kingdom exists) is true. Again, if we're talking burdens of proof, the burden is on him (just as he wants to place the burden of proof on those who are putting forth the notion that God created the universe).
Posted on 1/1/15 at 3:59 pm to Hester Carries
I don't shoot fish in a barrel. My last comment.
There is no kingdom out there when we observe. There is no kingdom when we measure. There is no kingdom when we apply reason, logic, and evidence.
The argument for a kingdom follows the tales of bronze age mythologies. That's it.
We are free to imagine anything. We can go where the evidence and knowledge take us, even to god if that's where it goes. Believers cannot do this.
It's America and we can believe what we want to believe. This poliboard is craaaazy, man.
There is no kingdom out there when we observe. There is no kingdom when we measure. There is no kingdom when we apply reason, logic, and evidence.
The argument for a kingdom follows the tales of bronze age mythologies. That's it.
We are free to imagine anything. We can go where the evidence and knowledge take us, even to god if that's where it goes. Believers cannot do this.
It's America and we can believe what we want to believe. This poliboard is craaaazy, man.
This post was edited on 1/1/15 at 4:14 pm
Posted on 1/1/15 at 3:59 pm to NC_Tigah
quote:
You lose.
A positve assertion is when you claim something "is". A negative assertion is when you claim something "isnt".
These are the definitions given to us as well as the notion that you cant prove a negative assertion.
Sorry if you dont like the definition.
Posted on 1/1/15 at 4:02 pm to Hester Carries
quote:Well, golly gee. Let's explore that """fact""" a bit.
Saying there is not something isnt a positive assertion. Thats just a fact.
Shall we?
What lies beyond the edges of the Universe?
Posted on 1/1/15 at 4:03 pm to NC_Tigah
quote:
What lies beyond the edges of the Universe?
My guess is nothing. But my answer is i dont know.
P.s. I know where this is going but ill let it play out
Also, the "thats just a fact" is referring to the definition of negative assertion. not the claim that there is no kingdom out there. I thought that was clear but whatever
This post was edited on 1/1/15 at 4:06 pm
Posted on 1/1/15 at 4:05 pm to Hester Carries
quote:
But my answer is i don't know.
gtfo with that humilityPosted on 1/1/15 at 4:15 pm to Hester Carries
quote:I don't give a rat's arse about your "guess".
My guess is nothing. But my answer is i dont know.
I care about your "facts".
You claim possession of "facts" outside the realm of scientific evidence, at least as far as I can tell. How can you know something doesn't exist in an overall equation you literally know nothing about?
Posted on 1/1/15 at 4:19 pm to NC_Tigah
quote:
You claim possession of "facts" outside the realm of scientific evidence
No i didnt. You misread my post.
Posted on 1/1/15 at 4:23 pm to NC_Tigah
quote:
You claim possession of "facts" outside the realm of scientific evidence, at least as far as I can tell. How can you know something doesn't exist in an overall equation you literally know nothing about?
You might be reading too much into that. It's looks like he is simply saying that one cannot prove a negative.
The good news (for you) is that statement may not be entirely accurate.
Posted on 1/1/15 at 4:25 pm to I B Freeman
quote:
Waiting for what asurob1?
It is interesting that you write off intelligent design yet believe the universe came together as happenstance. Which is the furthest reach of the mind?
1) There definitely is no God and the universe arose from nothing
2) There must be some kind of God because the complexity of the universe and life itself would be statistically impossible to achieve from nothing.
Odin has a white beard....pretty sure that's your god's description.
Prove to me he isn't god.
Posted on 1/1/15 at 4:27 pm to RCDfan1950
quote:
I tell you what Rob...you prove - to someone who hasn't felt Love and therefore don't believe in it - that love exists....and I'll prove to you that God exists.
Hell that's easy.
I love my wife.
And if you have tasted her cooking then you'd know I'd have to love her to stick around :P
Posted on 1/1/15 at 4:28 pm to NC_Tigah
quote:
Why? Does science make a claim one way or another in that regard?
Does Faith make a claim as to proof?
Are you too confused to know?
Time and time again science has shown evolution has and continues to happen.
Team Jesus continue to move the goalposts.
Faith is not proof no matter how hard you wish it was.
Prove it.
Pretty simple right.
Posted on 1/1/15 at 4:32 pm to asurob1
Personally I find the very existence of religious apologetics in and of itself to be evidence against an omnipotent creator God.
If the kind of God described in the Bible or the Quran were real, he wouldn't need his creation to defend him and certainly not with arguments so easily refuted.
If the kind of God described in the Bible or the Quran were real, he wouldn't need his creation to defend him and certainly not with arguments so easily refuted.
Posted on 1/1/15 at 4:34 pm to Hester Carries
quote:There is no white winner here:
Saying there is not something isnt a positive assertion.
Correct?
Posted on 1/1/15 at 4:35 pm to Roger Klarvin
quote:
Personally I find the very existence of religious apologetics in and of itself to be evidence against an omnipotent creator God.
If the kind of God described in the Bible or the Quran were real, he wouldn't need his creation to defend him and certainly not with arguments so easily refuted.
pretty much, but it makes for interesting conversation to watch them wallow in their inability to show one shred of evidence other then...cause I believe.
Understand, I admire the faith. To have that kind of faith in the wall of evidence that proves otherwise is powerful. But then again lemmings do march right off that cliff don't they.
This post was edited on 1/1/15 at 4:43 pm
Posted on 1/1/15 at 4:37 pm to NC_Tigah
I dont think you understand what im saying. Im simply stating the definitions of positive and negative assertions. A negative assertion can be wrong. That doesnt make it a positive assertion. Im confused by your confusion.
Posted on 1/1/15 at 4:41 pm to asurob1
quote:
Team Jesus
Who said the first thing about "Team Jesus"?
Let's try this again.
Does science make a claim one way or another regarding God?
Does Faith make a claim as to proof?
If you're still confused, I'll happily walk you thru it.
Posted on 1/1/15 at 4:43 pm to NC_Tigah
quote:
Does science make a claim one way or another regarding God?
No
quote:
Does Faith make a claim as to proof?
no
Is one of these reasonable? yes.
Posted on 1/1/15 at 4:45 pm to NC_Tigah
I will use small words for you.
Science doesn't have to prove there isn't a god.
The faithful want us to believe there is.
The burden of proof is on the faithful ;-).
Team Jesus sends out it's door to door salesmen all the time trying to get more people to join the magic circle.
Each time they come to my door I ask them the same question. You want me to believe...prove to me god exists.
They all reach for their bible searching for scripture ...
...that bible...written by men 2000 years ago is not proof of anything...any more then the Koran is.
Science doesn't have to prove there isn't a god.
The faithful want us to believe there is.
The burden of proof is on the faithful ;-).
Team Jesus sends out it's door to door salesmen all the time trying to get more people to join the magic circle.
Each time they come to my door I ask them the same question. You want me to believe...prove to me god exists.
They all reach for their bible searching for scripture ...
...that bible...written by men 2000 years ago is not proof of anything...any more then the Koran is.
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