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Posted on 1/5/15 at 12:32 pm to Hester Carries
quote:
On what basis?
I've got enough of this. You don't believe anyway and this is pointless.
Posted on 1/5/15 at 12:38 pm to Revelator
quote:
I've got enough of this. You don't believe anyway and this is pointless.
This has been a respectful line of questioning. I'm trying to understand your logic. What if it makes sense to me and I've never thought of it and it changes my mind?
As it stands it sounds like you decided what kind of God you preferred, and then picked the one that you felt fit that mold. I suppose another option is that you have a god and then decided that that was the way God should be. I'm asking you, instead of me inferring, to walk me through your reasoning.
Posted on 1/5/15 at 12:47 pm to Hester Carries
quote:
This has been a respectful line of questioning. I'm trying to understand your logic. What if it makes sense to me and I've never thought of it and it changes my mind?
I named you a few reasons why I believe what I believe: what I've read in the bible, what I've heard preached, the changes I've witnessed in others lives after Christianity, personal testimonies, my own personal experiences, etc.
I realize that this is mostly based on the stance that the bible is God's word, but that's what it is.
If you have issue with the bible though, none of my assurances will be acceptable.
Posted on 1/5/15 at 12:52 pm to Revelator
My question was why the bible over the Quran. You said because you believe God should be just and kind. I asked why you think this and you said the bible says so(which could be argued). That's circular. Do you agree, that by definition, it's illogical?
Posted on 1/5/15 at 12:54 pm to Hester Carries
quote:
My question was why the bible over the Quran. You said because you believe God should be just and kind. I asked why you think this and you said the bible says so(which could be argued). That's circular. Do you agree, that by definition, it's illogical?
I think you are a contentious person looking for contention.
Posted on 1/5/15 at 1:23 pm to Revelator
quote:
Revelator
I'll leave it at this. And trust me, the following is not said with malice or anger. Almost all of the people in my life that I love are as religious and sure in their faith as you. When I began to have doubts, they pleaded with me to talk to people. In doing that I asked questions, the same questions I asked you. The same questions I asked myself but had no answer for, which lead me to my rapidly vanishing faith. To a person, including you, were unable to answer the questions in way that followed logical progressions. Every time, including this time, the person would become defensive and accusatory.
As a Christian, you have one job. You have many expectations and characteristics, but you have one JOB. The Great Commission. You are the door-to-door salesman, and God/Christ are the vacuums. Im not saying that as a negative thing. You are meant to sell Christianity to the world. What I am telling you, as someone who wanted desperately to be sold, is that you are unable/unwilling/illequipped to do that job. You are bad at your job. Only one of those 3 reasons is your fault though (unwillingness).
I've often heard Christians say that at the time it is necessary, God will put on their hearts the right thing to say in order to witness effectively to others. If that is God's job in the whole process, then he is also bad at his job.
Posted on 1/5/15 at 1:40 pm to Hester Carries
quote:
As a Christian, you have one job. You have many expectations and characteristics, but you have one JOB. The Great Commission. You are the door-to-door salesman, and God/Christ are the vacuums. Im not saying that as a negative thing. You are meant to sell Christianity to the world. What I am telling you, as someone who wanted desperately to be sold, is that you are unable/unwilling/illequipped to do that job. You are bad at your job. Only one of those 3 reasons is your fault though (unwillingness).
I do share the gospel and witness, but in person with bible in hand not on some chat board publicly. We are already beyond the bounds of what is acceptable for the poliboard.
Posted on 1/5/15 at 1:42 pm to Hester Carries
This last post was well stated and likely something many can relate to or for the most part agree with. Not sure if that sincere interest still remains but Josh McDowell is one of many Christian Apologetic authors whose works you may find intriguing.
Posted on 1/5/15 at 1:44 pm to Revelator
quote:
I do share the gospel and witness,
But you cant support them. "This is a vacuum" is not a good sales pitch. You are ineffective. Thats something that you need to either correct or come to grips with.
quote:
We are already beyond the bounds of what is acceptable for the poliboard.
Then they will anchor this thread. But dont use that as a way to pull the ripcord. I assume your duties as a Christian are more important to you than the rules of the Poliboard.
Posted on 1/5/15 at 1:51 pm to tigahfromtheham
quote:
Not sure if that sincere interest still remains but Josh McDowell is one of many Christian Apologetic authors whose works you may find intriguing.
Id say that i no longer desire a vacuum. If someone could sell me on one, i would buy it. But i no longer desperately need one. Maybe I miss the times as a child, where i would vacuum with my parents. And the comforting sounds of the humming on chore day. But im not calling the catalog to get one anymore.
Posted on 1/5/15 at 1:54 pm to Hester Carries
quote:
"This is a vacuum" is not a good sales pitch. You are ineffective.
Hester, it is not a job it is a commandment. There isn't any sales pitch. It is a presentation of the Gospel which is "The Good News". That Jesus was crucified for our sins, died and has risen from the grave and conquered death, hell and the grave and sits at the right hand of the Father. It is not the "job" of a Christian to convince otherwise. Only to present. What you do with it is up to you.
Posted on 1/5/15 at 2:03 pm to Revelator
The believers who say that the debate is unimportant to them ignore the fact that it may not be about them. Jesus commanded us to “love our neighbors as we love ourselves” and we therefore have a responsibility as intelligent human beings to make every effort to understand this debate for the benefit of others, many of whom are enslaved by humanistic philosophy and atheism. We should always be ready to give a reason for the hope that is in us (faith) with meekness and fear...1 Peter 3:15.
"Just having faith" is unrealistic for many and the conversation shouldn't be avoided or ended when someone requests evidence that the Bible's timeline of history can be trusted in the face of today's widespread evolutionary teaching contradicting it. In order to do that Hester has a point in that it requires knowledge....it's a good challenge to perhaps pick up one of the popular Christian Apologetic books for future debate.
"Just having faith" is unrealistic for many and the conversation shouldn't be avoided or ended when someone requests evidence that the Bible's timeline of history can be trusted in the face of today's widespread evolutionary teaching contradicting it. In order to do that Hester has a point in that it requires knowledge....it's a good challenge to perhaps pick up one of the popular Christian Apologetic books for future debate.
Posted on 1/5/15 at 2:04 pm to Lg
quote:
Hester, it is not a job it is a commandment. There isn't any sales pitch. It is a presentation of the Gospel which is "The Good News". That Jesus was crucified for our sins, died and has risen from the grave and conquered death, hell and the grave and sits at the right hand of the Father. It is not the "job" of a Christian to convince otherwise. Only to present. What you do with it is up to you.
"Im going to tell you about vacuum"
"Where is it? What is it made of? How does it work?"
"It sucks up everything. Your house will be clean. Forever"
"Where is it? What is it made of? How does it work?"
"I am only here to tell you of its benefits. You will have to buy it in order to see it. But I am not here to sell it to you. You will have to sell it to yourself. Sight unseen"
"HONEY GET MY CHECKBOOK"
Posted on 1/5/15 at 2:09 pm to Hester Carries
I hope you find a good vacuum.
Posted on 1/5/15 at 2:11 pm to Lg
quote:
I hope you find a good vacuum.
quote:
"Where is it? What is it made of? How does it work?"
Posted on 1/5/15 at 2:12 pm to Hester Carries
quote:
Then they will anchor this thread. But dont use that as a way to pull the ripcord. I assume your duties as a Christian are more important to you than the rules of the Poliboard.
First off, I witness to those who I feel led by the Holy Spirit to witness to and those I know The Lord is dealing with. Second, you don't have the heart of one who is searching for salvation, but the heart of a skeptic.
If you ever have a legitimate thirst for God and seek him, he'll put someone in your path to provide the way.
Posted on 1/5/15 at 2:16 pm to Hester Carries
What are the consequences of being Christian? And just to keep it political, if we were all perfectly Christian would there be a need for a government?
Posted on 1/5/15 at 2:16 pm to Revelator
quote:
First off, I witness to those who I feel led by the Holy Spirit to witness to and those I know The Lord is dealing with. Second, you don't have the heart of one who is searching for salvation, but the heart of a skeptic.
Jesus literally talked to the DEVIL longer than you were willing to talk to me. When the going gets tough...
quote:
If you ever have a legitimate thirst for God and seek him, he'll put someone in your path to provide the way.
I guess he was on vacation for 24 years.
This post was edited on 1/5/15 at 2:19 pm
Posted on 1/5/15 at 2:19 pm to Hester Carries
quote:
But you cant support them. "This is a vacuum" is not a good sales pitch. You are ineffective. Thats something that you need to either correct or come to grips with.
You expecting an instantaneous answer. It won't happen. The answer will likely come through living and specifically love.
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