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Message
re: RFK exposing more secrets by Big Pharma…
Posted on 9/9/25 at 1:38 pm to David_DJS
Posted on 9/9/25 at 1:38 pm to David_DJS
I'm looking for this and not seeing a matching program. I see they offered additional guidance. What's your source for this?
As far as not trusting the government, I'm sure lots of people agree with you. It's a feature of our age. Fractured trust in authoritative sources yields different lived realities.
As far as not trusting the government, I'm sure lots of people agree with you. It's a feature of our age. Fractured trust in authoritative sources yields different lived realities.
1
Posted on 9/9/25 at 1:54 pm to TigerDoc
quote:
I'm looking for this and not seeing a matching program. I see they offered additional guidance. What's your source for this?
Are you familiar with the most famous "Death Certificate Matching" case?
There was a dude in Colorado that shot his wife to death, then committed suicide. It went down as two Covid deaths because the way the Death Certificate Matching program worked, death certificates were reviewed by state health bureaucrats, and they had the final say as to whether they'd be reported as "Covid death". There were some guidelines, actually a lot of them that I don't remember, but in the case of the murder/suicide Covid deaths, what made them "Covid deaths" was both wife/husband had tested positive for Covid 3 weeks before the murder/suicide. They weren't symptomatic, so it's not like he offed her/himself because he was distraught about having Covid.
In Arizona (and I'm sure most states) it was interesting to follow the Covid death reports. You'd go to the fancy Covid scoreboard and you could track/plot infections, hospitalizations and deaths. Once or twice a week there'd be this massive spike in Covid deaths, and at the bottom of that day's report would be something like, "167 of the 214 Covid deaths reported are from the Death Certificate Matching Program (some states called it something else), and includes deaths that may have occurred up to 60 days prior."
ETA -
quote:
As far as not trusting the government, I'm sure lots of people agree with you. It's a feature of our age. Fractured trust in authoritative sources yields different lived realities.
There's always been a healthy skepticism of things government, but Covid changed that like Covid spending changed fedgov spending. There was a step function change that has not corrected.
This post was edited on 9/9/25 at 1:56 pm
Posted on 9/9/25 at 2:09 pm to David_DJS
quote:
I'm not following why the more relevant/interesting discussion is about how the CDC/others fabricated/warped shite to advance political agendas rather than the interpretation of shite posted on social media by some dude.
Are you asking me why the this thread did not suit your specific interests?
quote:
Probably because it's not as spectacular as calling a murder/suicide two Covid deaths in order to rev up the dollar printers. An anecdote, for sure, but it's real and emblematic of the bullshite.
I have no idea what you are talking about.
quote:
I'll help. The president was Donald Trump.
And yet, I don’t think his poor leadership during that time period really moved that many people. If shutting down schools and fricking up the education of millions of kids through ‘wrongheaded restrictions’ as you put it does not reflect meaningfully on him, I’m not sure why people who were technically under him should get more scrutiny than Trump. I openly am questioning how much you care about the points you brought up if you are somehow excluding Trump from the pandemic response.
Posted on 9/9/25 at 2:23 pm to David_DJS
This is a cool case. Thanks for this. It's boring and sort-of complicated bureaucratically and cognitively sticky due to being about covid and it probably had some internet-rumor-mill elements, so it's a good 21st c. info ecology / rumor case.
The way you told it leaves out the important part - the state actually had two categories of deaths. “due to covid” meant it was on the death certificate as the cause. “with covid” meant the person had tested positive in the prior month, no matter what else happened. The murder-suicide showed up in the “with covid” category, which is why the coroner pushed back. The health dept insisted it was not recorded as "due to covid". Public health does this kind of broad tracking for flu and other trackable diseases too (for catching cases quickly, not inflating numbers). The dramatic outliers cases can get retold as legends, but they’re the exceptions that prove the rule.
LINK
The way you told it leaves out the important part - the state actually had two categories of deaths. “due to covid” meant it was on the death certificate as the cause. “with covid” meant the person had tested positive in the prior month, no matter what else happened. The murder-suicide showed up in the “with covid” category, which is why the coroner pushed back. The health dept insisted it was not recorded as "due to covid". Public health does this kind of broad tracking for flu and other trackable diseases too (for catching cases quickly, not inflating numbers). The dramatic outliers cases can get retold as legends, but they’re the exceptions that prove the rule.
LINK
This post was edited on 9/9/25 at 2:34 pm
Posted on 9/9/25 at 2:23 pm to crazy4lsu
quote:
And yet, I don’t think his poor leadership during that time period really moved that many people. If shutting down schools and fricking up the education of millions of kids through ‘wrongheaded restrictions’ as you put it does not reflect meaningfully on him, I’m not sure why people who were technically under him should get more scrutiny than Trump. I openly am questioning how much you care about the points you brought up if you are somehow excluding Trump from the pandemic response.
What makes you think I exclude Trump from pandemic response? If you spent more time responding to what's raised in posts rather than thinking for me, we both would probably get more out of the exchange. Just a thought.
For the record, I have been forceful in my criticism of Trump for Covid response and do not accept the standard excuses like - "he had to follow what the experts were telling him". Trump fricked up bigly on Covid response.
Posted on 9/9/25 at 2:33 pm to TigerDoc
quote:
The way you told it leaves out the important part - the state actually had two categories of deaths. “due to covid” meant it was on the death certificate as the cause. “with covid” meant the person had tested positive in the prior month, no matter what else happened. The murder-suicide showed up in the “with covid” category, which is why the coroner pushed back.
Did the CDC (or anybody) make the distinction between "due to Covid" and "with Covid" in the reporting of "Covid deaths" in real time? No, they didn't - certainly not where informing government is concerned.
Go to the Covid scoreboards and "due to" + "with" equals "Covid deaths", the number everybody followed and all the news networks posted on their chryons.
quote:
Public health does this kind of broad tracking for flu and other trackable diseases too (for catching cases quickly, not inflating numbers).
You would know better than me exactly how, but the death certificate matching program during Covid was different.
quote:
The dramatic outliers cases can get retold as legends, but they’re the exceptions that prove the rule).
That's one way to look at it. Another way to look at it is - if a murder/suicide, or a motorcycle accident, a drowning, a fall from a ladder, a poisoning - can be classified as a "Covid death", how many heart attacks went down as "Covid deaths" when Covid played zero to a minor role?
Didn't something like 15% of "Covid deaths" occur in Hospice?
Posted on 9/9/25 at 2:39 pm to David_DJS
quote:
What makes you think I exclude Trump from pandemic response? If you spent more time responding to what's raised in posts rather than thinking for me, we both would probably get more out of the exchange.
Because all the narratives about holding those responsible for the pandemic response seem to excuse or minimize his role. And certainly, it wasn’t a hindrance enough to stop his reelection. Which again, makes me broadly question the seriousness of the claims, at least in a vacuum. The obvious retort is that people see Trump as able to see out shared political goals, but it is less clear what exact purpose of holding people responsible when the politicians who oversaw the actual implementation of things like a lockdown get no pushback.
quote:
For the record, I have been forceful in my criticism of Trump for Covid response and do not accept the standard excuses like - "he had to follow what the experts were telling him". Trump fricked up bigly on Covid response.
Great, but did that create any hesitancy in voting for him? Or thought that children are still behind years behind in school enough to move people against all government officials except the ones that Republicans like?
To be real, I have a hard time dealing with that dissonance and taking certain claims seriously if the end result is nothing meaningful. What point would it serve to do ‘responsibility accounting’ if can’t focus on the leadership itself? I personally think it’s just driven by a ‘politics of revenge’ and not for more honest reasons. Hence why I’m pretty flippant. And given that my pandemic experience was much different than the average person’s, even those who still have strong opinions, at some point I have to privilege my experiences over narratives that might interest others.
Let’s say that another pandemic happens, this time with a pathogen which is more deadly for younger, healthier demographics, but with a CFR that is similar to COVID overall. What should the response be from leadership?
This post was edited on 9/9/25 at 2:46 pm
Posted on 9/9/25 at 2:45 pm to David_DJS
quote:
Did the CDC (or anybody) make the distinction between "due to Covid" and "with Covid" in the reporting of "Covid deaths" in real time? No, they didn't - certainly not where informing government is concerned.
No one makes this distinction for any other cause of death because differentiating the line between what caused a particular person’s death is both extremely time-intensive and subject to some degree of interpretation. Asking for that data in real-time is not some easy task.
quote:
That's one way to look at it. Another way to look at it is - if a murder/suicide, or a motorcycle accident, a drowning, a fall from a ladder, a poisoning - can be classified as a "Covid death", how many heart attacks went down as "Covid deaths" when Covid played zero to a minor role?
Well there is a distinct difference between something that was obviously mislabeled and an illness that has systemic effects.
For example, during the pandemic, there were a few case studies of vaccine-related deaths which showed lymphocytic infiltration into myocardial tissue causing an arrhythmia which led to myocardial ischemia and subsequently death. How should those deaths be labeled?
Posted on 9/9/25 at 2:50 pm to OMLandshark
quote:
I know for a fact that they had the cures to two diseases that they’ve hid from us so they could make a metric shite ton of money.
Name them. Expose them! If not, you are nothing but a bought and paid for stooge.
quote:
I have extreme suspicions they also have that for HIV and certain forms of cancer, but they’re not giving us those.
Oh wait, you are one of the useful idiots who thinks there aren’t a multitude of curable cancers
quote:
and that we need to shut the frick up.
You’re finally getting it
Posted on 9/9/25 at 2:52 pm to onmymedicalgrind
quote:
Name them. Expose them! If not, you are nothing but a bought and paid for stooge.
While I don’t think any cures have been withheld, information has been many many times. Surely. The good doctor is aware of that.
Posted on 9/9/25 at 3:09 pm to BBONDS25
quote:
While I don’t think any cures have been withheld
OML is literally claiming this has happened for at least two diseases.
Seems like we are on the same page here
quote:
information has been many many times. Surely. The good doctor is aware of that.
I’ve already posted multiple times about the profitability of cures. I don’t have time to do that yet again.
Posted on 9/9/25 at 3:12 pm to onmymedicalgrind
quote:
I’ve already posted multiple times about the profitability of cures. I don’t have time to do that yet again.
Completely non-responsive to my claim. I forgot you struggle with basic reading comprehension.
Posted on 9/9/25 at 3:23 pm to BBONDS25
quote:
Completely non-responsive to my claim.
Your claim was “information has been withheld.” Care to be more specific in the context of cures to diseases (that’s what OML and I were discussing that you interjected yourself into).
This post was edited on 9/9/25 at 3:27 pm
Posted on 9/9/25 at 3:25 pm to crazy4lsu
quote:
Great, but did that create any hesitancy in voting for him? Or thought that children are still behind years behind in school enough to move people against all government officials except the ones that Republicans like?
I supported DeSantis in the primary. For the general, FFS did you notice who they put up against the Republican nominee?
I'm all for moving against all gov't officials regardless of party. Fedgov is net net a massive negative for the middle 80% of Americans.
quote:
And given that my pandemic experience was much different than the average person’s, even those who still have strong opinions, at some point I have to privilege my experiences over narratives that might interest others.
You might consider checking that to a degree. Yes, as an MD your pandemic experience is very different than mine. But that can be good and bad.
quote:
Let’s say that another pandemic happens, this time with a pathogen which is more deadly for younger, healthier demographics, but with a CFR that is similar to COVID overall. What should the response be from leadership?
A great question and it would be fun to discuss at length, but this is a tough place to do that. Rather than answer your question with specific response to-dos, to start with I'll say the following should be acknowledged up front by the adults in the room -
Sometimes really bad things happen to good people. Sometimes the government and/or your doctor can't make everything better. At the top of everyone's mind as they fashion a response to a new pathogen should be something familiar to you - first, we do no harm.
Also, if we're not dusting off a well-built national plan for responding to a pathogen like you've posited, then it's all arm-waving and political theater, and the pathogen is going to run its course.
Posted on 9/9/25 at 3:32 pm to crazy4lsu
quote:
Well there is a distinct difference between something that was obviously mislabeled and an illness that has systemic effects.
For example, during the pandemic, there were a few case studies of vaccine-related deaths which showed lymphocytic infiltration into myocardial tissue causing an arrhythmia which led to myocardial ischemia and subsequently death. How should those deaths be labeled?
The point I'm making isn't at the margin. It doesn't involve a few cases. The example I gave was extreme and a little entertaining, but we're not talking about a few hundred cases of "mislabeling".
And before that discussion gets too far into the weeds, definitions would need to be established. I'm not sure "Covid death" or "with Covid"/"from Covid" mean the same thing to laymen as they do to medical professionals, and the hell of that is most of those (politicians) making policy are unaware of that.
Posted on 9/9/25 at 3:44 pm to Placekicker
Posted on 9/9/25 at 3:55 pm to onmymedicalgrind
quote:
Your claim was “information has been withheld.” Care to be more specific in the context of cures to diseases (that’s what OML and I were discussing that you interjected yourself into).
My God you are so dumb. I said that I don’t think they withheld cures, but I do think they withheld information. Which part of that confused you??
You love to say words have meaning. Which word did I use that is confusing you? I don’t care about OML kicking you up and down this board. I’m claiming pharmaceutical companies have withheld important information about drugs they sell.
It’s so amazing someone that has the education you claim never developed the ability to communicate and understand basic sentences.
This post was edited on 9/9/25 at 3:58 pm
Posted on 9/9/25 at 4:01 pm to David_DJS
quote:
You might consider checking that to a degree. Yes, as an MD your pandemic experience is very different than mine. But that can be good and bad.
Yes, and there isn't a point to defer to someone else when my own experiences fly in the face of certain claims.
quote:
Also, if we're not dusting off a well-built national plan for responding to a pathogen like you've posited, then it's all arm-waving and political theater, and the pathogen is going to run its course.
I mean, the fear is that nothing will change in our response. We seem quite okay with lots of death and I have no idea how to change that.
Posted on 9/9/25 at 4:10 pm to David_DJS
quote:
I'm not sure "Covid death" or "with Covid"/"from Covid" mean the same thing to laymen as they do to medical professionals, and the hell of that is most of those (politicians) making policy are unaware of that.
You could establish criteria theoretically but that criteria would be arbitrary. And outside of the political context, I don't think it's a meaningful distinction. Politicians should want accurate data in order to make policy decisions and COVID is/was a systemic illness, not strictly a respiratory one. If there were perverse incentives to label non-COVID deaths as COVID, that is a policy issue that could and should have been rectified. That still doesn't make a with COVID/from COVID distinction important.
Posted on 9/9/25 at 4:21 pm to onmymedicalgrind
quote:
onmymedicalgrind
There’s really something to be said about people like you. I’m not saying you’re right nor am I saying you are wrong about anything in this thread… but just based off of your username alone, I assume you to be one of those pretentious douchebags who constantly reminds everyone that you’re ‘onyourmedicalgrind’ all the time.
I imagine you to be a lot like this guy:
Yall know the vibes
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