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re: Question for pro choice advocates

Posted on 5/26/19 at 11:27 pm to
Posted by bfniii
Member since Nov 2005
17840 posts
Posted on 5/26/19 at 11:27 pm to
quote:

dirt and rocks, dude. Dirt and rocks
there's the obligatory ad hominem. the bat signal for "i've got nothing left but to keep repeating what i originally said."

you actually said that the condom breaking makes it ok to murder an unborn baby because, CHOICES AND STUFF! clod
Posted by xiv
Parody. #AdminsRule
Member since Feb 2004
39508 posts
Posted on 5/27/19 at 1:03 am to
quote:

but it is your business if defenseless humans are being murdered for the sake of convenience.
It isn’t my business that a woman is pregnant. It isn’t yours either. She and only she decides whose business it is. Your opinion does not factor in.
quote:

no one is talking about the constitution. we are talking about the moral imperative and the analytical truth of the situation

No you aren’t, or you would accept that it is immoral to stick your nose in someone else’s business in such a way. You’re just virtue signaling.
quote:

allow people to murder babies
neither of us thinks that this is what is happening. If you maintain this stance, you are a liar, and there is no need to continue with you further.

Signal that virtue.
This post was edited on 5/27/19 at 1:05 am
Posted by FightnBobLafollette
Member since Oct 2017
12204 posts
Posted on 5/27/19 at 1:49 am to
Dude. You sound just like the taliban.
Posted by Terrific Tales
Member since Jan 2019
19919 posts
Posted on 5/27/19 at 2:56 am to
You are saying a lot of “I rebutted this” and “I rebutted that” but I haven’t seen a single actual rebuttal come from you regarding sentience and you haven’t responded to the simple question posed of what biological feature distinguishes a human from a non-human if not the ability to think.

Doesn’t seem like the pro-choice advocates are the ones avoiding the questions.
Posted by bfniii
Member since Nov 2005
17840 posts
Posted on 5/27/19 at 7:41 pm to
quote:

It isn’t my business that a woman is pregnant. It isn’t yours either
what the hell? yes it is. just like's it's our duty to weigh in on ANYONE being murdered for the sake of convenience. my word what the frick is wrong with you. your moral compass is WAY off

quote:

She and only she decides whose business it is
uh, she does not have the right to murder someone merely because it cuts down on her trips to charming charlie for the latest swag

quote:

Your opinion does not factor in
no one is talking opinion. we're talking moral fact

quote:

No you aren’t, or you would accept that it is immoral to stick your nose in someone else’s business in such a way
yeah, that's how truth works. it sticks it's nose into everyone's business. it's applicable to everyone everywhere at all times. it is always wrong to murder someone for the sake of convenience

quote:

neither of us thinks that this is what is happening
that's PRECISELY what's happening and your inability to see that is why you are answering with these nonsense responses

quote:

If you maintain this stance, you are a liar
do you even realize that some babies SURVIVE abortion attempts?! that means they could have been induced and actually lived to tell the tale. and are you denying that the VAST VAST majority of these procedures are because girls just don't want the hassle of a child? if you can't acknowledge these 2 facts, you have no business commenting on the subject
Posted by Terrific Tales
Member since Jan 2019
19919 posts
Posted on 5/27/19 at 7:47 pm to
quote:

moral fact


Surely you see that this is an oxymoron?

Right?
Posted by bfniii
Member since Nov 2005
17840 posts
Posted on 5/27/19 at 7:47 pm to
quote:

I haven’t seen a single actual rebuttal come from you regarding sentience
you haven't seen me post about the sled test? my word

quote:

you haven’t responded to the simple question posed of what biological feature distinguishes a human from a non-human if not the ability to think.
only about a dozen times. that it's irrelevant and i gave reasons why. you are not doing a good job of keeping up. otoh, knucklehead hank said that the condom breaking was justification for the woman to murder the baby because, well, she actually tried darn it! but you sure aren't calling him out for that nonsense are you?

quote:

Doesn’t seem like the pro-choice advocates are the ones avoiding the questions
the op remains unsatisfied. hank tried by saying that if the baby doesn't have brain activity, killing the child for convenience is erring on the side of caution. you can't possibly defend that. that is absolutely ludicrous. then he acknowledged that the fetus had the potential to actually become a human being. you cannot reconcile those two comments. if the latter is true, the former is unequivocally not erring on the side of caution.
Posted by bfniii
Member since Nov 2005
17840 posts
Posted on 5/27/19 at 7:47 pm to
quote:

Surely you see that this is an oxymoron?
um no. do you disagree? if so, explain
Posted by Terrific Tales
Member since Jan 2019
19919 posts
Posted on 5/27/19 at 7:56 pm to
From my point of view, what would be considered “erring on the side of caution” would be to only abort a fetus at a point that it can be fully established and recognized that the fetus has no capacity to think or feel.

To that effect, the earliest that the neurological pathways of the brain would be developed enough to feel any sort of pain is scientifically accepted as 8 weeks.

With that in mind, “erring on the side of caution” would entail something less than that. Therefore, if one were to “err on the side of caution”, an abortion should be performed before 8 weeks into a pregnancy.
Posted by Terrific Tales
Member since Jan 2019
19919 posts
Posted on 5/27/19 at 7:58 pm to
Yes, moral fact is an oxymoron. A fact, by definition, is an absolute and undisputed objective truth. Morality entails the opinions of someone regarding the ethics of theirs or others’ actions or behaviors, which is intrinsically subjective.
Posted by AggieHank86
Texas
Member since Sep 2013
44345 posts
Posted on 5/27/19 at 8:27 pm to
quote:

quote:

Your opinion does not factor in

no one is talking opinion. we're talking moral fact
Heaven save us from the sanctimonious.
Posted by DisplacedBuckeye
Member since Dec 2013
76732 posts
Posted on 5/27/19 at 9:25 pm to
quote:

buckeye has still not provided anything of substance on the issue.


Your "substance" has amounted to "sled test" and "moral fact."
Posted by bfniii
Member since Nov 2005
17840 posts
Posted on 5/28/19 at 10:18 am to
quote:

what would be considered “erring on the side of caution” would be to only abort a fetus at a point that it can be fully established and recognized that the fetus has no capacity to think or feel
the first problem with this perspective is thinking that can actually be done. the second problem is that the mere presence or absence of pain does not preclude personhood. there are people who have trouble feeling pain but murdering them for convenience is still immoral

quote:

the earliest that the neurological pathways of the brain would be developed enough to feel any sort of pain is scientifically accepted as 8 weeks
lots of fail here. first, this perspective fails the sled test. second, brain activity continues to be detected earlier and earlier which means our understanding of pain continues to evolve. third, the experience of pain should not be the only consideration in allowing abortion, much less erring on the side of caution. third, we are denying the babies' right to choose to live merely because they have a developing anatomy

quote:

if one were to “err on the side of caution”, an abortion should be performed before 8 weeks into a pregnancy
no, erring on the side of caution is not performing abortion at all. it's like you didn't even read the op
Posted by bfniii
Member since Nov 2005
17840 posts
Posted on 5/28/19 at 10:26 am to
quote:

Morality entails the opinions of someone regarding the ethics of theirs or others’ actions or behaviors
wow. completely, utterly wrong. you have been miseducated

quote:

Morality...is intrinsically subjective
interesting. so, what is morally "right" for one person is not morally right for another? is that an objective fact? is that objectively true for all people?
Posted by bfniii
Member since Nov 2005
17840 posts
Posted on 5/28/19 at 10:44 am to
quote:

Your "substance" has amounted to "sled test" and "moral fact."
BOOM. buckeye laying it down ftw! you're ready for peer reviewed journals with this response. hey don't forget about the luau party at the pike house later. you're supposed to bring the dixie cups
Posted by bfniii
Member since Nov 2005
17840 posts
Posted on 5/28/19 at 2:35 pm to
I just wanted to summarize the scorecard of responses

mailman posted the juvenile graphic that if we can eat chicken fetuses, a human fetus is not protected from abortion. does this even need a serious response?

burningheart said that a pregnant woman should not be expected to endure pregnancy even if terminating it ends the life of another person. also said that the baby "doesn't know/care" that is it being murdered

tboy said that if contraception fails, the woman should not be burdened with pregnancy

buckeye simply maintains that a fetus isn't a baby. take his word for it. no reason given. just trust him. then typed countless posts that amount to nothing more than "nuh unh". he claims the sled response to abortion has been refuted. i asked for a link. no response.

aggiehank. this one is a special case. he knows just enough to be dangerous. admitted he didn't know one of the most basic pro life responses to abortion but said that wasn't ignorance because he mistook how the term was being used. he thinks that abortion is acceptable prior to the baby feeling pain. so can we murder people who live with congenital insensitivity to pain? no answer. similarly, hank says that abortion is acceptable if the baby lacks higher brain functions. so can we murder people who are mentally handicapped or who have genetic defects? no answer. hank also thinks that if the woman makes a genuine effort to prevent pregnancy but it occurs anyway, she should be let off the hook and can murder the baby.

lsuconvert said that "science" dictates that we don't have to err on the side of caution in regards to preserving human life. nevermind that science has helped society go out of it's way to preserve endangered species. but humans? nah, kill away

xiv says he can't be bothered with defending another human's right to live. it's none of his business. a pregnant woman is the only person who gets to serve as judge, jury and executioner

terrific tales doesn't understand the term morality. says that morality is subjective which is of course a morally objective statement. obviously hasn't studied aristotle. agrees with hank that feeling pain is the cutoff for abortion.

so in total, only 8 people showed up to defend their pro choice stance. precisely NONE of them satisfied the op - err on the side of caution in regards to human life. NONE of them acknowledged the a fortiori point that the anti abortion position preserves the right to life, prevents the act of abortion from being an irreversible decision and addresses the adoption demand.

i think it's important to gather these responses together to show just how pathetic these people are
Posted by narddogg81
Vancouver
Member since Jan 2012
21929 posts
Posted on 5/28/19 at 2:54 pm to
quote:

It’s her business, and it isn’t yours. This thread is littered with boys who are angsty because girls don’t do what they say.
what a fricking asinine reply to the fact that pretty much everyone, liberal pro abortion legal scholars and judges included, that roe v wade is not legally justifiable on it's own merits, and contains essentially no rationale or reason for it's conclusion that there exists some connection between a right to privacy and getting an abortion, it that if such a right existed in the Constitution at all and could cover the topic of abortion it would be so braod that there is nothing it wouldn't cover. Every decision since upholding roe v wade has done so not in the basis that it's good or even coherent constitutional law but that it would be to disruptive to overturn. For your reading pleasure, some comments about this landmark decision

quote:

Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg
“Roe, I believe, would have been more acceptable as a judicial decision if it had not gone beyond a ruling on the extreme statute before the Court. … Heavy-handed judicial intervention was difficult to justify and appears to have provoked, not resolved, conflict.” — Ruth Bader Ginsburg, U.S. Supreme Court Justice

“As a matter of constitutional interpretation and judicial method, Roe borders on the indefensible. I say this as someone utterly committed to the right to choose. … Justice Blackmun’s opinion provides essentially no reasoning in support of its holding. And in the … years since Roe‘s announcement, no one has produced a convincing defense of Roe on its own terms.” -Edward Lazarus, former clerk to Justice Harry Blackmun (author of Roe v. Wade)

“Overturning would be the best thing that could happen to the federal judiciary. … Thirty years after Roe, the finest constitutional minds in the country still have not been able to produce a constitutional justification for striking down restrictions on early-term abortions that is substantially more convincing than Justice Harry Blackmun’s famously artless opinion itself.” -Jeffrey Rosen, George Washington University law professor

quote:

Prof. Laurence Tribe, Harvard Law School
“One of the most curious things about Roe is that, behind its own verbal smokescreen, the substantive judgment on which it rests is nowhere to be found.” -Laurence Tribe, Harvard law professor

“What is frightening about Roe is that this super-protected right is not inferable from the language of the Constitution, the framers’ thinking respecting the specific problem in issue, any general value derivable from the provisions they included, or the nation’s governmental structure. Nor is it explainable in terms of the unusual political impotence of the group judicially protected vis-a-vis the interests that legislatively prevailed over it. And that, I believe … is a charge that can responsibly be leveled at no other decision of the past 20 years.” -John Hart Ely, Yale law professor

quote:

Former Solicitor General Archibald Cox
“The failure to confront the issue in principled terms leaves the opinion to read like a set of hospital rules and regulations. … Neither historian, nor layman, nor lawyer will be persuaded that all the prescriptions of Justice Blackmun are part of the Constitution.” — Archibald Cox, Harvard law professor and former U.S. Solicitor General

“[It] is time to admit in public that, as an example of the practice of constitutional opinion writing, Roe is a serious disappointment. You will be hard-pressed to find a constitutional law professor, even among those who support the idea of constitutional protection for the right to choose, who will embrace the opinion itself rather than the result. This is not surprising. As a constitutional argument, Roe is barely coherent. The court pulled its fundamental right to choose more or less from the constitutional ether.” — Kermit Roosevelt, University of Pennsylvania law professor

quote:

Prof. Alan Dershowitz, Harvard Law School
“[C]lear governing constitutional principles … are not present [in Roe].” -Alan Dershowitz, Harvard law professor

“In the Court’s first confrontation with the abortion issue, it laid down a set of rules for legislatures to follow. The Court decided too many issues too quickly. The Court should have allowed the democratic processes of the states to adapt and to generate sensible solutions that might not occur to a set of judges.” -Cass Sunstein, University of Chicago law professor

“Blackmun’s papers vindicate every indictment of Roe: invention, overreach, arbitrariness, textual indifference.” -William Saletan, Slate columnist

‘Although I am pro-choice, I was taught in law school, and still believe, that Roe v. Wade is a muddle of bad reasoning and an authentic example of judicial overreaching.” -Michael Kinsley, Washington Post columnist

“In the years since the decision an enormous body of academic literature has tried to put the right to an abortion on firmer legal ground. But thousands of pages of scholarship notwithstanding, the right to abortion remains constitutionally shaky. … [Roe] is a lousy opinion that disenfranchised millions of conservatives on an issue about which they care deeply.” -Benjamin Wittes, Brookings Institution fellow.
Posted by DemonKA3268
Parts Unknown
Member since Oct 2015
21150 posts
Posted on 5/28/19 at 2:58 pm to
quote:

Your "substance" has amounted to "sled test" and "moral fact."


You don't even know what that means, talk about obtuse

and now you are using your alters to upvote your posts, how brave.
Posted by DemonKA3268
Parts Unknown
Member since Oct 2015
21150 posts
Posted on 5/28/19 at 3:04 pm to
quote:

You’re just virtue signaling


You keep telling people this yet you are doing the same exact thing. What a dope. You haven't done anything and you will never do anything of substance in your life except type on your little keyboard.

You don't even have the balls to back up your BS
This post was edited on 5/28/19 at 3:09 pm
Posted by bfniii
Member since Nov 2005
17840 posts
Posted on 5/28/19 at 6:33 pm to
proposal, stop responding to these nutjobs in other posts until they come back here and admit they were wrong about abortion. their performance on the issue is here for everyone to see. pathetic.
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