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Message
1
Posted on 1/15/17 at 5:53 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:
"do better than that" = shift the costs to SFP and punish the guy who is doing everything correctly
To be fair, you're punished in a lot of other ways for following the rules and not trying to cheat the system. E.g. you paid more income taxes than Trump, you don't have any offshore accounts to hide money, you're paying for current recipients of Medicare and SS that Republicans in Congress want to ensure you never see a dime of, etc.
The costs are going to be shifted, there's no way around it. Let's do what we can to limit someone's ability to take advantage of that as a free rider.
Posted on 1/15/17 at 5:53 pm to BamaAtl
What does the fact that Reagan signed the bill into law have to do with my proposal? Other than obfuscation.
Posted on 1/15/17 at 6:00 pm to BamaAtl
quote:
To be fair, you're punished in a lot of other ways for following the rules and not trying to cheat the system.
yeah i don't limit my criticism to the ACA, but it's the biggest government power grab in my life and has severely affected my finances for the past few years (and it will only get worse). plus y'all are discussing the ACA here
quote:
you're paying for current recipients of Medicare and SS that Republicans in Congress want to ensure you never see a dime of, etc.
those systems will not exist when i'm 65 no matter what. my dream is to end those programs as soon as i can b/c that's fricking me worse than the ACA (but since it existed my entire life i had already adjusted to that theft)
quote:
The costs are going to be shifted, there's no way around it.
that is not true, especially if we return the decision-making to the health care providers so they can make financial decisions (as it would directly affect them)
quote:
Let's do what we can to limit someone's ability to take advantage of that as a free rider.
remove government mandates and put the decision-making in the hands of the health care providers
Posted on 1/15/17 at 6:08 pm to Crimson Wraith
quote:
Many have smart phones now. Bet it's unlimited data too.
I've always been interested in what phone plan they have. I swear to God, there isn't a second in time I don't see them on their phones talking to someone.
Posted on 1/15/17 at 6:15 pm to BamaAtl
quote:
Good argument to be made that unions did, but that's neither here nor there.
I said socialism.
quote:
The trouble is, we have no way of knowing who the some will be (except for some exceptions). You never know if you'll need health care tomorrow, from a stroke to a cancer diagnosis to a car accident. And if you bet that you'll never need the care, and you bet wrong, you are financially ruined without insurance and bear the burden of paying for all those individuals who also bet poorly.
Sounds like people shouldn't bet on their health if it could ruin them.
quote:
We can do better than that.
Your solution is to have the majority pay for the bad decisions of those few. I will never be on board for that. You do better.
Posted on 1/15/17 at 6:16 pm to BamaAtl
I work for big pharma and here is what happened to my health care coverage costs for a family of 5 (me, wife, 3 children).
Over the past few years since the ACA was enacted, my deductibles have went up by a factor of 4 (that is a few thousand dollars each year) while my premiums went up slightly.
This year my deductibles stayed the same, but they increased the cost of my premiums by 10%.
Fortunately they have kicked the can on the "cadillac tax" which would crush any employer sponsored health care plan which would lead to millions losing money.
Some say we should get away from employer sponsoring health care, but they aren't magically going to give me a raise out of the goodness of their heart if that perk goes away.
Over the past few years since the ACA was enacted, my deductibles have went up by a factor of 4 (that is a few thousand dollars each year) while my premiums went up slightly.
This year my deductibles stayed the same, but they increased the cost of my premiums by 10%.
Fortunately they have kicked the can on the "cadillac tax" which would crush any employer sponsored health care plan which would lead to millions losing money.
Some say we should get away from employer sponsoring health care, but they aren't magically going to give me a raise out of the goodness of their heart if that perk goes away.
Posted on 1/15/17 at 6:16 pm to BamaAtl
quote:
Let's do what we can to limit someone's ability to take advantage of that as a free rider.
That's worked out well in other handout programs...
Posted on 1/15/17 at 6:17 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:
remove government mandates and put the decision-making in the hands of the health care providers
That doesn't make sense. Our prerogative is always going to be to save lives, and that costs money. Insurance or no.
Posted on 1/15/17 at 6:20 pm to BamaAtl
quote:
Our prerogative is always going to be to save lives, and that costs money. Insurance or no.
i don't doubt HCPs will save lives, but giving them the freedom to immediately refuse people who are abusing the ER as a PCP would help things out immensely. they are required by government to not have much in terms of decision making authority here
this helps remove free riders from the health care pool
This post was edited on 1/15/17 at 6:21 pm
Posted on 1/15/17 at 6:22 pm to DisplacedBuckeye
quote:
Sounds like people shouldn't bet on their health if it could ruin them.
It can ruin anyone who doesn't have multiple millions of dollars in the bank. And what about people who can't afford health insurance, but aren't eligible for medicaid? Or have a pre-existing condition?
quote:
Your solution is to have the majority pay for the bad decisions of those few.
Not at all, that's why I'm for the individual mandate with a greater penalty. That logic more applies to you, who will be paying for the poor decisions of those who choose not to carry insurance whenever you touch the health care industry.
Posted on 1/15/17 at 6:24 pm to BamaAtl
quote:
And what about people who can't afford health insurance,
what about the people who can't afford health insurance under the ACA?
the people who are working decent jobs and don't qualify for Medicaid
quote:
Or have a pre-existing condition?
if all the arguments for the ACA come down to this, then we can address this without the ACA. PECs are one small par of the ACA
Posted on 1/15/17 at 6:25 pm to BamaAtl
quote:
It can ruin anyone who doesn't have multiple millions of dollars in the bank.
They should get insurance.
quote:
And what about people who can't afford health insurance, but aren't eligible for medicaid?
Work more or spend less.
quote:
Or have a pre-existing condition?
Get different coverage.
quote:
Not at all, that's why I'm for the individual mandate with a greater penalty. That logic more applies to you, who will be paying for the poor decisions of those who choose not to carry insurance whenever you touch the health care industry.
So we're back to plain old socialism.
Posted on 1/15/17 at 6:26 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:
refuse people who are abusing the ER as a PCP
My concern there is ensuring that hospitals don't use that freedom to eliminate acutely ill (read: expensive) patients from their potential admissions.
And what's to stop them from going to another facility to try and get admission/treatment? We don't exactly have an integrated EMR at present.
Posted on 1/15/17 at 6:27 pm to BamaAtl
Hospitals shouldn't make those decisions, but the federal government should?
Posted on 1/15/17 at 6:29 pm to BamaAtl
quote:
My concern there is ensuring that hospitals don't use that freedom to eliminate acutely ill (read: expensive) patients from their potential admissions.
that would only be a concern if they don't have insurance of some sort
then the question becomes: why didn't they get insurance or treat this condition prior? that's on them
quote:
And what's to stop them from going to another facility to try and get admission/treatment?
nothing. that's how the free market works. then the decision is on another HCP
if they want to take the financial risk, that's their choice
Posted on 1/15/17 at 6:30 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:
what about the people who can't afford health insurance under the ACA?
That's a smaller number than if it were repealed. Let's tweak it to reduce this number or eliminate it entirely.
quote:
the people who are working decent jobs and don't qualify for Medicaid
The 3% of the population on the individual exchanges that don't qualify for a subsidy did get hit particularly hard (though you could argue some of it was the ability to purchase insurance at all in the case of those with pre-existing conditions). Let's see what we can do to help them without screwing everyone else.
quote:
if all the arguments for the ACA come down to this, then we can address this without the ACA.
Yes and no. We know high risk pools don't work.
Posted on 1/15/17 at 6:30 pm to DisplacedBuckeye
quote:
Work more or spend less.
This isn't an answer. It's also not an option for people with pre-existing conditions without the ACA's protections.
Posted on 1/15/17 at 6:31 pm to DisplacedBuckeye
quote:
Hospitals shouldn't make those decisions, but the federal government should?
Nobody makes those decisions now due to EMTALA.
Posted on 1/15/17 at 6:32 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:
why didn't they get insurance or treat this condition prior? that's on them
What if they were born with the condition, and wanted to start a business, and no insurance company would offer them a policy? Should someone born with a genetic defect be barred from being an entrepreneur in this country?
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