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re: Putin vouching for Witkoff & Kushner on camera
Posted on 9/8/26 at 3:01 pm to tide06
Posted on 9/8/26 at 3:01 pm to tide06
quote:
Until America and the west internalizes and factors in that Russia views NATO encroachment to their borders as existential none of this will make sense and no peace will be had.
NATO had been on Russia’s borders for years before the invasion. Putin had also been explicit in his desires to see the return of some kind of Russian or Soviet Empire.
Posted on 9/8/26 at 3:14 pm to tide06
quote:
I’m attempting to explain to you what it would take to get Russia to sign and you seem to be willfully ignoring the point.
No you’re not. You’re just trying to tell me the Russian position. But since you’re going here, so we should just give into the Russian demands then for the sake of signing a “peace deal”?
Posted on 9/8/26 at 3:22 pm to theGarnetWay
Yes as part of an ongoing expansion by NATO towards their border.
This is in their view is a response to that and any peace deal will be viewed through that lens by them.
If you don’t care about ending the war so be it but a peace deal is going to be predicated on where that buffer starts not if it exists.
This is in their view is a response to that and any peace deal will be viewed through that lens by them.
If you don’t care about ending the war so be it but a peace deal is going to be predicated on where that buffer starts not if it exists.
Posted on 9/8/26 at 3:22 pm to sta4ever
quote:
So you’re ok with war and the killing of hundreds of thousands of people?
A saying about circus and monkeys comes to mind.
Posted on 9/8/26 at 3:27 pm to tide06
quote:
quote:
Putin just gonna keep kicking the can further and further down the road. That man ain’t looking for peace. He’s just looking for capitulation and is completely ok with killing hundreds of thousands of people in the process too.
Until America and the west internalizes and factors in that Russia views NATO encroachment to their borders as existential none of this will make sense and no peace will be had.
There has to be a buffer zone before there will be peace.
Whether we fail to understand that or fail to care the result will just be war until we can make an agreement reflective of not just our wants but their concerns.
Great logic. So Putin starts a war of choice that threatened another neighbor enough that they abandoned their long-standing policy of US / Russia neutrality (Finland) that they chose to join NATO, more than doubling the length of his actual border with NATO overnight, not the imagined border he thought might one day, potentially, in the distant future exist with Ukraine.
Oh, and for good measure, the other major Baltic country, also with a long-standing policy of US / Russia neutrality and one who also happens to have one of the most robust defense industries in the world, feels threatened enough by Putin's actions that they decide to join NATO as well. So the entirety of Russia's Baltic access is now surrounded by NATO countries.
That's not to mention that they also A) lost access to the Mediterranean because they were too busy fricking around in Ukraine after 2022 and couldn't provide the support required to keep Assad in power and B) lost the one major ally they had in the Western hemisphere in Venezuela, also because they were too busy fricking around in Ukraine.
Strategic genius.
This post was edited on 9/8/26 at 3:29 pm
Posted on 9/8/26 at 3:27 pm to sta4ever
quote:
Was NATO gonna invade Russia or something? How’s that any different than the US surrounding China in Asia? Why is it Russia where you guys lay the line?
You should probably do a modicum of research on the history of NATO and Russia’s borders. Opining with hubris from a place of complete ignorance is never a good look.
Posted on 9/8/26 at 3:32 pm to sta4ever
quote:
No you’re not. You’re just trying to tell me the Russian position. But since you’re going here, so we should just give into the Russian demands then for the sake of signing a “peace deal”?
Do I believe Ukraine can continue indefinitely without collapsing? No.
Do I believe we should continue funding their war indefinitely without a fixed agreement on minerals in exchange? No.
Do I believe they’re capable of winning without direct US ground involvement? No.
Do I support US ground involvement in Ukraine? Absolutely not.
Therefore the most logical conclusion is that the conflict is encouraged to end with a peace deal and as I outlined that deal is going to have to reflect some of their needs in order to get it signed because they have the advantage currently.
Posted on 9/8/26 at 3:35 pm to sta4ever
He’s just looking for capitulation and is completely ok with killing hundreds of thousands of people in the process too.
It’s truly frightening that so many cultists admire and like that POS Putin. But I guess in reality it shouldn’t be surprising that devotees of a wannabe dictator admire a dictator.
It’s truly frightening that so many cultists admire and like that POS Putin. But I guess in reality it shouldn’t be surprising that devotees of a wannabe dictator admire a dictator.
Posted on 9/8/26 at 3:44 pm to LSUgrad88
quote:
cultists
you think Trump fans support Putin?Posted on 9/8/26 at 3:48 pm to VOR
quote:
NATO was formed with the specific purpose of deterring Russia and its post-war ambitions.
The USSR (along with the Warsaw Pact) and “Russia” are two different animals.
NATO was formed to counter the USSR. Russia is a boogie man.
Posted on 9/8/26 at 3:56 pm to VOR
quote:
NATO was formed with the specific purpose of deterring Russia and its post-war ambitions. It's a defensive alliance, and Putin knows it.
Want to count how many of those nations are now NATO members?
NATO has been objectively expansionist for my entire life. Whether you view that positively or negatively is totally up to you, but it’s an objective fact that its expanded eastward.
Unfortunately none of that benefits America at all or means anything whatsoever with regard to what Russia will require to sign a peace deal which was the whole point of the discussion.
Posted on 9/8/26 at 3:57 pm to BBONDS25
quote:
you think Trump fans support Putin?
They do.
Somehow even explaining what Russia would require to sign a deal or asking why we should continue to fund a war over there makes you pro-Putin.
Posted on 9/8/26 at 4:05 pm to keks tadpole
quote:
The USSR (along with the Warsaw Pact) and “Russia” are two different animals. NATO was formed to counter the USSR. Russia is a boogie man.
NATO was formed for the sole purpose of stopping horrific European imperialistic wars that have haunted the world for hundreds of years. Moscow is just the last one who still thinks in an old school, imperialistic way. It has nothing to do with their name being the USSR or Russia, it’s Moscow, the Kremlin who’s been the problem and still is to this day.
Posted on 9/8/26 at 4:06 pm to tide06
But we should start a war with Iran though right?
This post was edited on 9/8/26 at 4:07 pm
Posted on 9/8/26 at 4:09 pm to tide06
quote:
NATO has been objectively expansionist for my entire life. Whether you view that positively or negatively is totally up to you, but it’s an objective fact that its expanded eastward. Unfortunately none of that benefits America at all or means anything whatsoever with regard to what Russia will require to sign a peace deal which was the whole point of the discussion.
So since we’re being aggressively expansionists, Russia now has a right and an excuse to be militarily aggressive and expansionist? We should just ignore this and everything will be all fine and dandy.
Posted on 9/8/26 at 4:12 pm to BBONDS25
quote:
You should probably do a modicum of research on the history of NATO and Russia’s borders. Opining with hubris from a place of complete ignorance is never a good look.
You’re right. I forgot about all the times NATO invaded Russia…
Posted on 9/8/26 at 4:28 pm to sta4ever
quote:
But we should start a war with Iran though right?
I was never in favor of a war in Iran outside of limited strikes against nuclear sites.
Posted on 9/8/26 at 4:32 pm to sta4ever
quote:
So since we’re being aggressively expansionists, Russia now has a right and an excuse to be militarily aggressive and expansionist? We should just ignore this and everything will be all fine and dandy.
What does fair have to do with global politics or war? If they were too weak to put themselves into a position where we/Ukraine had to negotiate no one would care what their strategic demands and concerns were but since they have pushed Ukraine to the brink even with our help we have to accept some of what they demand or escalate.
I’ve outlined my logic and why I would do what I proposed not out of approval but from a cold realistic appraisal of the situation and various scenarios available to us.
What is your proposal?
Status quo?
Ground war?
Posted on 9/8/26 at 4:36 pm to sta4ever
quote:
You’re right. I forgot about all the times NATO invaded Russia…
Double down without doing a modicum of research. Your comment shows a vast amount of ignorance. You think I was speaking about invasion? Holy shite. You really have no idea the history of what’s happening in Eastern Europe. You’re proud and smug in your ignorance. It’s so sad to see. You choose to remain ignorant because you’re fighting a team game.
Posted on 9/8/26 at 5:33 pm to BBONDS25
quote:
Double down without doing a modicum of research. Your comment shows a vast amount of ignorance. You think I was speaking about invasion? Holy shite. You really have no idea the history of what’s happening in Eastern Europe. You’re proud and smug in your ignorance. It’s so sad to see. You choose to remain ignorant because you’re fighting a team game.
Tell us abt the history of what's happening in Eastern Europe. We all want to know.
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