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Message
re: Planned Parenthood keeps saying 3% of their income is from abortions
Posted on 2/2/17 at 10:49 am to Obi-Wan Tiger
Posted on 2/2/17 at 10:49 am to Obi-Wan Tiger
1/10
1
Posted on 2/2/17 at 10:50 am to ballscaster
quote:Actually, no. No it doesn't.
Yes. Exactly 100% my point. "Abortion is murder" is exactly this.
Not that I call women who get abortions murderers. I can guarantee you've never seen that in a post of mine.
Posted on 2/2/17 at 10:52 am to ShortyRob
quote:
Actually, no. No it doesn't.
Ok sure. You walked into it. "Abortion is murder" is the single greatest example of the point you made. Posted on 2/2/17 at 10:52 am to ballscaster
Posted on 2/2/17 at 10:52 am to ballscaster
quote:Nope. Nice try though.
Ok sure. You walked into it. "Abortion is murder" is the single greatest example of the point you made.
Posted on 2/2/17 at 10:54 am to ballscaster
quote:
And you save the 5yo because that life is more valuable than the embryos in the jar. It's because they're different. It's because abortion is different from murder. We all know this. That's why the murder argument gets tuned out
Shitty answer to an even shittier analogy. Here is an analogy to get to the heart of the matter.
A building is burning, there is a 5 year old in one room and a 25 year old woman in another, you are running to the building knowing you can only save one. You've decided you are going to save the 5 year old. Then right before you get to the door, a burned man in a stretcher being wheeled away yells at you, my wife's in there and she's pregnant!
Do you change your mind?
Posted on 2/2/17 at 10:58 am to Turbeauxdog
Shitty post, but good question. I save the kid first.
Posted on 2/2/17 at 10:58 am to Turbeauxdog
quote:
Shitty answer to an even shittier analogy. Here is an analogy to get to the heart of the matter. A building is burning, there is a 5 year old in one room and a 25 year old woman in another, you are running to the building knowing you can only save one. You've decided you are going to save the 5 year old. Then right before you get to the door, a burned man in a stretcher being wheeled away yells at you, my wife's in there and she's pregnant! Do you change your mind?
Better analogy.
That said, my response stands. The fact that people will tend to prioritize one person over another in such situations doesn't make the person they didn't prioritize not worthy of life.
It just means they, for whatever reason, prioritized one more highly. Some people might still save the 5 year old. Some might save the woman. The man would've prioritized his wife even if not pregnant. And so on.
Posted on 2/2/17 at 10:59 am to ballscaster
quote:You keep ignoring my point. This isn't a "war" that is fought by blocking doors and killing abortion doctors. If the end goal is to stop abortion from happening, the only way to do it in a country that has legalized it is to make it unlawful. That's why I contact my representatives and I vote.
You keep walking right into my point. If abortion is murder, why are you on an Internet forum and not somewhere where you can be useful? Abortion is murder!!!
quote:See previous statement. Blocking a door does nothing to further the cause because I would be arrested for trespassing and the delay of 20 minutes wouldn't do anything to save lives.
You won't even block the door with your friends. It's because you know it isn't murder.
quote:Clearly your reading comprehension is lacking, so I'll be more specific. Your talking point is telling pro-life people that they don't believe abortion is murder because they don't block doors or kill doctors.
"Abortion is murder" is the talking point. "No it isn't, dumb arse," isn't a talking point.
quote:My feelings have no place in the argument, and I believe no one's feelings do, either. You are trying to shift the debate away from arguments about the merits or demerits to whether or not my personal feelings are hurt (they aren't). That's on you, not me.
Your position that abortion is murder is indefensible, and you know it, so you accuse me of trolling to feel better about yourself. Just like you call abortion people murderers for the same reason. frick your feelings.
That being said, my position that abortion is murder (by moral law, not by the legal standard, according to the government) is certainly defensible. I've been defending it throughout this thread and so have others. I'm accusing you of trolling because I can't imagine a rational person making the statements you are making regarding a mother getting an abortion wanting privacy in response to my statement that abortion is not really about privacy as the court twisted it to be. You are addressing statements that aren't made, either because you aren't comprehending what is being written to you or you are doing it on purpose because you are trolling. I'm still responding in spite of my suspicions of you being a troll because I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt.
quote:Perhaps I should say you have two talking points: pro-lifers don't actually think abortion is murder because they don't kill abortion doctors and blow up buildings, and the second one is that they oppose abortion because they have some sort of psychological deficiencies and project their own insecurities on others.
You need so badly to feel better about yourself that you want the government to violate the Bill of Rights. Gross.
Neither is true, but keep telling yourself that if it makes you feel better.
I'm arguing that it's a violation of the BOR for the unborn child to be killed out of convenience. I am arguing that the argument from privacy is an absolute torturing of the BOR and that abortion should be overturned and either outlawed completely by congress or left to the states to decide at the very least.
Posted on 2/2/17 at 11:02 am to FooManChoo
quote:Correct. It's because your point is that abortion is murder. Not reading the rest of your post. Way too long, and you're flailing. Your position that abortion is murder is indefensible. It's obvious that you know that abortion and murder are two different things and that you save the kid before you save the embryos.
You keep ignoring my point
It's because you don't believe that abortion is murder. Nobody on this board believes that.
This post was edited on 2/2/17 at 11:03 am
Posted on 2/2/17 at 11:03 am to ballscaster
quote:OK. I'll go kill the neighbor kids in my house. It's my house so it's none of your business. In fact, I'll go do that in my bedroom because you need to keep the government out of my bedroom. Isn't that the saying? See how ridiculous that is?
No it doesn't. It boils down to whether it's any of your business. It isn't. So you have no argument.
A violation of someone else's rights is not trumped by a violators right to privacy. The "none of your business" argument doesn't work in that case. That's why I said it boils down to whether or not an unborn child is considered a person, because if they are, then the NOYB argument holds no weight.
Posted on 2/2/17 at 11:12 am to ballscaster
quote:If you want to have a discussion, you have to listen to the other person. Reading the post is necessary for understanding the content, especially when you accuse the other person of not having a defense when you ignore the defense they give. If you don't want to discuss, you can bow out now. I'm not going anywhere.
Correct. It's because your point is that abortion is murder. Not reading the rest of your post. Way too long, and you're flailing. Your position that abortion is murder is indefensible. It's obvious that you know that abortion and murder are two different things and that you save the kid before you save the embryos.
quote:Since you apparently haven't read my posts on the matter, I would direct you back to them if you really care to discuss this particular fallacy.
It's because you don't believe that abortion is murder. Nobody on this board believes that.
Posted on 2/2/17 at 11:13 am to FooManChoo
quote:It's your point, not mine.
OK. I'll go kill the neighbor kids in my house. It's my house so it's none of your business. In fact, I'll go do that in my bedroom because you need to keep the government out of my bedroom. Isn't that the saying? See how ridiculous that is?
quote:It's none of your business that a woman is even pregnant, much less what decisions she makes regarding her health.
The "none of your business" argument doesn't work in that case.
quote:fify
If you want to have a discussion, you have to listen to the other person instead of calling them murderers.
You accuse people who have had abortions of murder, and you complain that others don't listen to you.
This post was edited on 2/2/17 at 11:16 am
Posted on 2/2/17 at 11:17 am to ballscaster
I'm still trying to figure out why this thread is about abortion vs life.
The thread, regardless of the quality of the OP, is about funding PP.
PP says 97% of their services are non-abortion. NONE of those services are unique to PP. They can be sourced from tons of places.
Therefore, there is no logical reason to use tax dollars to fund PP. If we really feel those other 97% or services need to be funded by govt, there are plenty of non PP places to send the money.
The other argument is just the billionth rehash on this board of the abortion argument. I could post all of ballcaster's posts for him. And, I could post all the responses.
The thread, regardless of the quality of the OP, is about funding PP.
PP says 97% of their services are non-abortion. NONE of those services are unique to PP. They can be sourced from tons of places.
Therefore, there is no logical reason to use tax dollars to fund PP. If we really feel those other 97% or services need to be funded by govt, there are plenty of non PP places to send the money.
The other argument is just the billionth rehash on this board of the abortion argument. I could post all of ballcaster's posts for him. And, I could post all the responses.
Posted on 2/2/17 at 11:17 am to ballscaster
quote:Your point was that it's none of my business if a woman has an abortion. I was showing the absurdity of that statement within the context of personhood of the unborn.
It's your point, not mine.
quote:It's not my business that she's pregnant or what she does with her own health. Abortion isn't about her health, though (in most situations), it's about her convenience. It's about the unborn's health, which is why I believe it is the business of our nation to protect the defenseless in this case.
It's none of your business that a woman is even pregnant, much less what decisions she makes regarding her health.
quote:I'm making arguments and providing counter arguments for those who are discussing the issue. If I believe that abortion is murder, then by definition those who perform or allow abortions are murderers. But more specifically, I'm accusing you of not listening, and that accusation is based on you saying (twice now) that you haven't read what I have written. It seems like you have a reading problem.
fify
You accuse people who have had abortions of murder, and you complain that others don't listen to you
This post was edited on 2/2/17 at 11:24 am
Posted on 2/2/17 at 11:21 am to skrayper
So explain it to me then genius. How is the federal government paying Planned Parenthood not taxpayer funded abortion?
You have two options here 1) tell the tale about earmarked funds which is an intellectual lie or 2) admit that funding planned parenthood is taxpayer funded abortion.
You have two options here 1) tell the tale about earmarked funds which is an intellectual lie or 2) admit that funding planned parenthood is taxpayer funded abortion.
Posted on 2/2/17 at 11:23 am to FooManChoo
quote:Yeah you said you were going to murder children. You're right; you saying that was ridiculous. Nothing to do with what I said though.
Your point was that it's none of my business if a woman has an abortion. I was showing the absurdity of that statement within the context of personhood of the unborn.
quote:She'll decide that for herself. She doesn't need your help.
It's not my business that she's pregnant or what she does with her own health. Abortion isn't about her health, though (in most situations), it's about her convenience
quote:Then try to bend the laws of physics so that our government can do that without violating Liberty, and I'll tune in. Until then, you're just high-horsing and nothing more.
I believe it is the business of our nation to protect the defenseless in this case.
Posted on 2/2/17 at 11:28 am to ShortyRob
quote:
Therefore, there is no logical reason to use tax dollars to fund PP. If we really feel those other 97% or services need to be funded by govt, there are plenty of non PP places to send the money.
Well you see... The massive influx of cash from the federal government goes into a special pot that is only used for the non-abortive services. We all know money definitely is not fungible. The federal money does not allow planned parenthood to use its privately raised funds to pay for abortions by floating the other services they provide.
Posted on 2/2/17 at 11:28 am to ballscaster
quote:More reading comprehension problems with you. Are you stupid or are you trolling? I know what the answer is but I'd prefer if you stated it for the record.
Yeah you said you were going to murder children. You're right; you saying that was ridiculous. Nothing to do with what I said though.
quote:Currently, she'll do whatever she pleases under the law. That's why the discussion continues and why elections matter. Getting that ability to kill an unborn child out of convenience needs to be outlawed, regardless of what she or anyone else wants.
She'll decide that for herself. She doesn't need your help
quote:It's not a violation of liberty to protect innocent life. No one has a right to unlawfully take the life of another person. Getting the laws changed to make the unborn considered a live person (legally) will not remove liberty any more than outlawing homicide removes liberty. There is no liberty to murder. Outlawing abortion simply expands this concept to the unborn.
Then try to bend the laws of physics so that our government can do that without violating Liberty, and I'll tune in. Until then, you're just high-horsing and nothing more.
Posted on 2/2/17 at 11:48 am to FooManChoo
quote:Oof. Classic weak internet comeback with no material.
More reading comprehension problems with you.
quote:More reading comprehension problems with you. We've already covered this. I'm not trolling you; I'm owning you. Your idea that abortion is murder is indefensible, hence your unwillingness to answer the hypothetical about the house fire.
Are you stupid or are you trolling? I know what the answer is but I'd prefer if you stated it for the record.
quote:You're lying again. Not buying it. You get tuned out when you talk like this. You're reducing your accusation of "murder" to "convenience," exposing your stance as dishonest.
Getting that ability to kill an unborn child out of convenience needs to be outlawed
quote:Not what I said.
It's not a violation of liberty to protect innocent life.
quote:There you go again, lying.
There is no liberty to murder.
quote:Another lie.
Outlawing abortion simply expands this concept to the unborn.
Foo, you are a liar.
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