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2
Posted on 5/15/20 at 1:40 pm to doubleb
That I'm not sure about. Maybe someone else could chime in on that. Good question.
Posted on 5/15/20 at 1:40 pm to Roger Klarvin
quote:
It’s embarrassing the lengths some of you will go to in order to feel justified in celebrating the death of a black guy
Some of y’all are literally making up words and laws that don’t exist.
take issue with some detail or law related to this case or stand aside, IMO. nobody is happy that ahmaud arbery is dead, it is a tragedy. but this pattern our country has fallen into of a wildly popular narrative that is not totally in line with the facts or the law... it sets the stage for mass outrage when the law and the narrative collide, and everyone is shocked, angry, and some people get violent. it gets worse every time it happens, and nothing will get better this way.
there are real repercussions to situations like this that are way worse than this one man's tragic death. whether you know it or not, you're going along with that IMO.
so like i said, what is your issue from a legal, factual perspective?
Posted on 5/15/20 at 1:41 pm to yesyesyall
quote:
their argument will be that they had reasonable suspicion of felony burglary, obviously with no proof of his intent in entering the house, but seeing him flee from the property (which was marked "no trespassing"). fleeing in a high crime area has constituted reasonable suspicion in other arrests, i'd imagine their justification will include that point.
I think the no trespassing sign has gone up since the incident, but im not 100% sure about that. However, none of the previous trespassing incidents included theft and literally the only recent theft reported was Travis McDumbass left a loaded gun in his unlocked car on the street. There were no witnesses (for all we know the Dumbass may have lost it) and Zero evidence that Arbery had anything to do with it.
They may have made up in their minds that there was a notorious cat burglar on the prowl but ill be shocked if that is deemed sufficient grounds...
Posted on 5/15/20 at 1:43 pm to LSUGrrrl
quote:
If no felony occurred there was no legal basis for them to detain him or attempt to make a citizen’s arrest.
again, that is the standard for conviction, not for detaining. reasonable suspicion.
Posted on 5/15/20 at 1:47 pm to yesyesyall
Reasonable suspicion is not knowledge though, and for obvious reasons isnt good enough for a citizens arrest
Posted on 5/15/20 at 1:47 pm to doubleb
I’m going to guess around 3 to 4 minutes.
Based on distances involved that McMichaels said they chased him, Arbery had run somewhere around half a mile.
McMichaels call stays connected to 911 and it’s about 3 minutes from the time he stops talking to dispatch until you can hear sirens.
Based on distances involved that McMichaels said they chased him, Arbery had run somewhere around half a mile.
McMichaels call stays connected to 911 and it’s about 3 minutes from the time he stops talking to dispatch until you can hear sirens.
Posted on 5/15/20 at 1:47 pm to yesyesyall
quote:
again, that is the standard for conviction, not for detaining. reasonable suspicion.
Immediate knowledge of a felony.
Their reasonable suspicion has to be based on their own knowledge (as in first hand) of a felony taking place.
The Dad relies on the previous surveillance video which he had seen. He had enough actual knowledge of the law to know that nothing in those videos constituted a felony.
Posted on 5/15/20 at 1:47 pm to yesyesyall
quote:
again, that is the standard for conviction, not for detaining
If you’re not police, it’s not the standard for detaining.
Posted on 5/15/20 at 1:49 pm to the808bass
Yep, can you imagine the absolute insanity if citizens could just detain people they suspected of committing a felony?
Posted on 5/15/20 at 1:52 pm to Sneaky__Sally
quote:
Reasonable suspicion is not knowledge though, and for obvious reasons isnt good enough for a citizens arrest
do you have a source i could read about that? my understanding is that reasonable suspicion is the relevant standard.
Posted on 5/15/20 at 1:56 pm to yesyesyall
quote:
do you have a source i could read about that? my understanding is that reasonable suspicion is the relevant standard.
2010 Georgia Code
TITLE 17 - CRIMINAL PROCEDURE
CHAPTER 4 - ARREST OF PERSONS
ARTICLE 4 - ARREST BY PRIVATE PERSONS
§ 17-4-60 - Grounds for arrest
O.C.G.A. 17-4-60 (2010)
17-4-60. Grounds for arrest
A private person may arrest an offender if the offense is committed in his presence or within his immediate knowledge. If the offense is a felony and the offender is escaping or attempting to escape, a private person may arrest him upon reasonable and probable grounds of suspicion.
Posted on 5/15/20 at 1:56 pm to More&Les
Citizen's Arrest
As a private citizen, you have no authority to arrest anyone with a warrant. Without a warrant, you may arrest anyone who commits a mis-demeanor or a felony in your presence or with your immediate knowledge. A citizen's arrest occurs when a citizen prevents a suspect from leaving a scene. Citizen's arrest most often happens in cases like shoplifting, when the store's manager detains the suspected offender.
"in your presence or with your immediate knowledge." they are going to argue that they recognized arbery from multiple prior instances entering this house, saw him in there again, and when spotted, arbery bolted. won't they say they had reasonable suspicion he'd committed a crime, called the cops, and attempted to prevent him from fleeing until the cops arrived, as a store manager might do to a suspected shoplifter?
As a private citizen, you have no authority to arrest anyone with a warrant. Without a warrant, you may arrest anyone who commits a mis-demeanor or a felony in your presence or with your immediate knowledge. A citizen's arrest occurs when a citizen prevents a suspect from leaving a scene. Citizen's arrest most often happens in cases like shoplifting, when the store's manager detains the suspected offender.
"in your presence or with your immediate knowledge." they are going to argue that they recognized arbery from multiple prior instances entering this house, saw him in there again, and when spotted, arbery bolted. won't they say they had reasonable suspicion he'd committed a crime, called the cops, and attempted to prevent him from fleeing until the cops arrived, as a store manager might do to a suspected shoplifter?
Posted on 5/15/20 at 1:56 pm to yesyesyall
quote:
again, that is the standard for conviction, not for detaining. reasonable suspicion.
You cannot legally detain someone without direct, first hand knowledge that they committed a crime. Guessing doesn’t qualify. They illegally detained him, brought a weapon and someone was killed in the course of their illegal actions.
Posted on 5/15/20 at 2:00 pm to the808bass
So not that long. I was led to believe it was over five minutes closer to say ten minutes.
Posted on 5/15/20 at 2:01 pm to yesyesyall
quote:
by yesyesyall
That is a decent summary, again, this is the statute. (Bold added)
quote:
A private person may arrest an offender if the offense is committed in his presence or within his immediate knowledge. If the offense is a felony and the offender is escaping or attempting to escape, a private person may arrest him upon reasonable and probable grounds of suspicion.
Posted on 5/15/20 at 2:03 pm to yesyesyall
quote:
saw him in there again,
The six million dollar question, did the McMichaels see Arbery in the house that day or leaving the house that day?
Of did they just see Arbery running in front of their house?
Posted on 5/15/20 at 2:03 pm to doubleb
quote:
Arbery case by doubleb
So not that long. I was led to believe it was over five minutes closer to say ten minutes.
According to the police report the chased him down one street in their cars, he turned and went back the way he came and they cut him off at the point of the confrontation so it may have been five to ten minutes, not sure
Posted on 5/15/20 at 2:05 pm to doubleb
quote:
The six million dollar question, did the McMichaels see Arbery in the house that day or leaving the house that day?
No
quote:
Of did they just see Arbery running in front of their house?
Yes
According to the police report, from their own statements
Posted on 5/15/20 at 2:07 pm to More&Les
you bold'd the wrong part IMO:
felony burglary is a felony, and he was attempting to escape, right?
quote:
A private person may arrest an offender if the offense is committed in his presence or within his immediate knowledge. If the offense is a felony and the offender is escaping or attempting to escape, a private person may arrest him upon reasonable and probable grounds of suspicion.
felony burglary is a felony, and he was attempting to escape, right?
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