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Message
re: Man dead after refusing to show police ID
Posted on 3/3/14 at 3:51 pm to DawgfaninCa
Posted on 3/3/14 at 3:51 pm to DawgfaninCa
quote:
Why are you so unwilling to do your duty as a citizen and fully cooperate with the police even if you didn't commit a crime?
You're clearly a freedom loving, small government conservative.
1
Posted on 3/3/14 at 3:52 pm to DawgfaninCa
quote:
Why are you so unwilling to do your duty as a citizen and fully cooperate with the police even if you didn't commit a crime?
I don't know, maybe because I can see some middle ground. I personally don't mind and would comply.
However, if I was wearing a gun and badge I would expect to show some skills in de-escalation when handling a domestic disturbance. Somewhere in there was a line that crossed reason.
Yes, the man should have followed the command. But he didn't, the police have to maintain control and as a tax payer I would like to think there are a few other meathods to be deployed prior to jumping the guy.
Posted on 3/3/14 at 3:55 pm to DawgfaninCa
quote:Wrong. I want freedom and liberty.
If you think we are living in a police state because you are required to show a proper ID when requested to by the police then you want anarchy
Seems we lose more and more of it with each passing year. And you seem perfectly O.K. with that.
quote:It is not the job of the police to decide who is or who isn't a criminal. You don't seem to understand this simple concept.
every criminal wanted by the police
Posted on 3/3/14 at 4:02 pm to DawgfaninCa
quote:
Why are you so unwilling to do your duty as a citizen and fully cooperate with the police even if you didn't commit a crime?
It's frightening that people like you actually exist.
Posted on 3/3/14 at 4:06 pm to RogerTheShrubber
quote:
Not in every State
Only in the red ones.
You got that map from Wikipedia but those are states that passed a specific law stating that you must produce a proper ID when asked for one by the police or else they can arrest you.
However that article on Wikipedia also states, "The authority to detain on reasonable suspicion was established in Terry v. Ohio, 392 U.S. 1 (1968), and does not depend on the existence of a law that specifically authorizes such a detention, so that authority exists in all jurisdictions in the United States. The name disclosure was considered by the U.S. Supreme Court in Hiibel v. Sixth Judicial District Court of Nevada, 542 U.S. 177 (2004), which held that the name disclosure did not violate the Fourth Amendment prohibition on unreasonable searches and seizures."
Posted on 3/3/14 at 4:09 pm to TK421
quote:
It's frightening that people like you actually exist.
It's frightening that people like you actually exist who want murderers to be able to refuse to identify themselves when the police stop them on suspicion that they committed a minor crime.
Posted on 3/3/14 at 4:12 pm to DawgfaninCa
quote:
It's frightening that people like you actually exist who want murderers to be able to refuse to identify themselves
Good thing we have all those cops wandering around Baton Rouge arresting people for not showing ID. No wonder the murder solve rate is at 100%. I guess I'll just start looking forward to V for Vendetta becoming a reality.
This post was edited on 3/3/14 at 4:13 pm
Posted on 3/3/14 at 4:22 pm to TX Tiger
quote:
Wrong. I want freedom and liberty.
Seems we lose more and more of it with each passing year. And you seem perfectly O.K. with that.
quote:
Where there is no law, but every man does what is right in his own eyes, there is the least of liberty - Henry M . Robert
What part of my signature don't you understand?
quote:
It is not the job of the police to decide who is or who isn't a criminal. You don't seem to understand this simple concept.
The police aren't deciding who is or who isn't a criminal.
However, if they have reasonable suspicion that someone has committed a crime or have seen someone commit a crime no matter how small then they have the legal authority to determine that person's identity. If that person is not carrying an ID or refuses to identify themselves then the police can detain them until their identity is determined.
Because the police have that legal authority, many criminals who have committed violent crimes and who will commit more violent crimes have been captured by the police and taken off the streets.
That's a good thing in my eyes.
This post was edited on 3/3/14 at 4:23 pm
Posted on 3/3/14 at 4:32 pm to TK421
quote:
Good thing we have all those cops wandering around Baton Rouge arresting people for not showing ID. No wonder the murder solve rate is at 100%.
How many murderers and other violent criminals would refuse to identify themselves when they are stopped by the police on suspicion of committing a minor crime and then get away to commit more murders and/or violent crimes because the police couldn't detain them until their identity is determined?
I'll answer the question.
All of them.
Posted on 3/3/14 at 4:35 pm to tigerfoot
quote:
Yes, the man should have followed the command. But he didn't, the police have to maintain control and as a tax payer I would like to think there are a few other meathods to be deployed prior to jumping the guy.
Name one that the police could have used in this specific situation.
Posted on 3/3/14 at 4:36 pm to DawgfaninCa
Who cares about liberty when you can harass thousands on the small chance of finding one violent criminal?
Cops truly are the scum of the earth.
Cops truly are the scum of the earth.
Posted on 3/3/14 at 4:37 pm to Asgard Device
quote:
You're clearly a freedom loving, small government conservative.
You're clearly an sophistic anarchist pretending to be a freedom loving progressive.
Posted on 3/3/14 at 4:40 pm to DawgfaninCa
quote:Oh, I see now, you clearly have no concept of what freedom is or should be.
Wrong. I want freedom and liberty.
Seems we lose more and more of it with each passing year. And you seem perfectly O.K. with that.
quote:
Where there is no law, but every man does what is right in his own eyes, there is the least of liberty - Henry M . Robert
What part of my signature don't you understand?
quote:
It is not the job of the police to decide who is or who isn't a criminal. You don't seem to understand this simple concept.
The police aren't deciding who is or who isn't a criminal.
However, if they have reasonable suspicion that someone has committed a crime or have seen someone commit a crime no matter how small then they have the legal authority to determine that person's identity. If that person is not carrying an ID or refuses to identify themselves then the police can detain them until their identity is determined.
Because the police have that legal authority, many criminals who have committed violent crimes and who will commit more violent crimes have been captured by the police and taken off the streets.
That's a good thing in my eyes.
This is my biggest fear, that Americans are being incrementally conditioned to believe that Fascism is freedom.
I see it is already working on some.
Posted on 3/3/14 at 4:40 pm to TK421
quote:
Who cares about liberty when you can harass thousands on the small chance of finding one violent criminal?
The police asking someone to identify themselves isn't harassment.
quote:quote:
TK421 truly is the scum of the earth.
FIFY
Posted on 3/3/14 at 4:43 pm to DawgfaninCa
quote:The irony is that those who advocate the Patriot Act, are arguing against you here.
It's frightening that people like you actually exist who want murderers to be able to refuse to identify themselves when the police stop them on suspicion that they committed a minor crime.
Posted on 3/3/14 at 4:46 pm to TX Tiger
quote:
Oh, I see now, you clearly have no concept of what freedom is or should be.
This is my biggest fear, that Americans are being incrementally conditioned to believe that Fascism is freedom.
I see it is already working on some.
So you are claiming that Henry M. Robert who wrote Robert's Rules of Order didn't know what freedom is or should be and was a fascist.
You are just trying to argue sophistically that anarchy is freedom and liberty.
It isn't.
Posted on 3/3/14 at 4:46 pm to DawgfaninCa
quote:Fortunately, today's police force has been given unified mind-reading abilities capable of identifying the murderers from the law-abiding citizens.
It's frightening that people like you actually exist who want murderers to be able to refuse to identify themselves
Posted on 3/3/14 at 4:47 pm to TX Tiger
quote:
The irony is that those who advocate the Patriot Act, are arguing against you here.
What's that got to do with the number of farts in Boston?
Posted on 3/3/14 at 4:49 pm to DawgfaninCa
quote:
The police asking someone to identify themselves isn't harassment.
It is an unwanted confrontation. That is harassment. I realize cops aren't the most intelligent citizens out there (though some could undoubtedly find a successful second career in either the fast food or house keeping industry), but even you should understand the basics of harassment.
That doesn't even touch on the subject at hand of cops killing a guy for not showing ID. That is no better than gangster kids in Chicago randomly mowing down pedestrians and at least they don't pretend to be honorable.
Posted on 3/3/14 at 4:52 pm to TX Tiger
quote:
Fortunately, today's police force has been given unified mind-reading abilities capable of identifying the murderers from the law-abiding citizens.
Unfortunately, today's police force don't have unified mind-reading abilities capable of identifying the murderers from the law-abiding citizens so when the police reasonably suspect someone has committed a crime they have been given the legal authority to detain that person until their identity can be determined.
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