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Message
re: Man dead after refusing to show police ID
Posted on 2/28/14 at 2:03 pm to RogerTheShrubber
Posted on 2/28/14 at 2:03 pm to RogerTheShrubber
quote:
Dude, left wingers support a big, strong state government like you do.
Dude, I am not a reactionary like the moronic left wingers on this thread who are jumping to the conclusion that the police officers are just thugs who wanted to beat up the man so they ( the reactionary morons) are immediately screaming for the cops' blood.
4
Posted on 2/28/14 at 2:08 pm to DawgfaninCa
I think you are wrong in assuming that most of the people sickened by the actions of the 3 cops and 2 game warden are left-wingers. I am very conservative and fully support the right of police to use deadly force when necessary, but cannot imagine any justification for piling on a man who is unarmed, not moving, and has done nothing more that refuse to show his ID.
Posted on 2/28/14 at 2:09 pm to DawgfaninCa
do you know what reactionary means?
Posted on 2/28/14 at 2:11 pm to DawgfaninCa
quote:The fact that I believe all cops are thugs aside, I don't believe they just wanted to beat him up.
Dude, I am not a reactionary like the moronic left wingers on this thread who are jumping to the conclusion that the police officers are just thugs who wanted to beat up the man so they ( the reactionary morons) are immediately screaming for the cops' blood.
What I want is for this country to kick the damn stepladder out from under the police departments so that the LEOs return to the same level as the rest of us.
I want them to be punished the same as we would if we did what they did.
Let's flip the script for a minute. Had 5 regular citizens confronted an innocent man because they believed he slapped a woman and it resulted in the death of that man, you damn well know that all 5 of them would be locked away.
This post was edited on 2/28/14 at 2:12 pm
Posted on 2/28/14 at 2:18 pm to DawgfaninCa
quote:
I am not a reactionary like the moronic left wingers on this thread
Look up reactionary.
Posted on 2/28/14 at 2:19 pm to Scruffy
quote:
The fact that I believe all cops are thugs aside, I don't believe they just wanted to beat him up.
Your shtick is getting old dude. We understand you dislike police and enjoy talking about your persona here in the third person, sometimes, but try to be reasonable. Taking an unreasonable stance on nearly every subject in conjunction with the two issues I listed in my second sentence are signs of schizophrenia. Do you hear voices? Is everyone out to get you or just the police?
Posted on 2/28/14 at 2:24 pm to DanTiger
quote:Occasionally. Depends on if Scruffy is off his meds or not.
Do you hear voices?
And I'm guessing you have no idea why I play up that 3rd person schtick on here.
quote:The cops aren't out to get me. I've actually never had a run in with the cops. Not once. Not even a speeding ticket.
Is everyone out to get you or just the police?
I just don't like the direction police depts have been going, and I don't like how they get away with acts we would be locked away for.
This post was edited on 2/28/14 at 2:26 pm
Posted on 2/28/14 at 2:25 pm to RogerTheShrubber
I'm using the word, "reactionary" in the context of being "a reactionary person" not in a political context.
This post was edited on 2/28/14 at 2:26 pm
Posted on 2/28/14 at 2:26 pm to Sevendust912
quote:
The police have the legal authority to detain you until your identity is determined so if you refuse to show your ID then they have the legal authority to physically detain you by using physical force.
If you are seriously injured as a result then it's your fault for refusing to show your ID. It's not the police officers' fault for doing their job.
If true, that is complete bull shite. Why would a cop need to use physical force for someone simply refusing to show ID?
It isn't true. You must "ID" yourself, not show an ID card.
For instance:
Cop: Hello, I am xxxx, from xxxx department, we have had a complaint about xxxx filed, can I have your name and address please?
Citizen: Tom Jones, shitfield lane.
But the truth of the matter is that cops know that asking for a name and address would induce compliance in most cases, so they ask for an ID card in hopes that some "smart arse" civvy will get an attitude and need to be "put down".
It goes like this:
Cop: Hey, I'm gonna need to see some ID
citizen: you don't need to see shite
Cop: Show me ID or a will arrest you
Citizen: Mind your own business
Cop: STOP RESISTING!!! STOP RESISTING!!! (Taser/mace/gun)
This is a cops dream come true. The pinnacle of his profession is to utilize language and misinterpreted statutes to create conflict and thus a reason to use overwhelming force in the name of personal safety and public good. Fortunately, time and time again, people like Dawgfaninca justify this behavior by saying "just cooperate". What small minded idiots like that don't understand is that THE COPS DON'T WANT TO SEE YOUR ID CARD. They want an excuse to be an a-hole. So, cooperation gets pushed and pushed until they get the result that they want, which is an excuse to be an a-hole.
I have seen this very behavior all over the world. It plays out exactly the same way as it does in America, except at least in foreign countries you can often bribe your way out instead of getting crushed to death in front of your wife and kids.
Posted on 2/28/14 at 2:31 pm to Scruffy
quote:
I just don't like the direction police depts have been going, and I don't like how they get away with acts we would be locked away for.
I believe you are correct in assuming that if 5 men, in a similar situation, took in upon themselves to detain someone who had no committed a felony and he died afterwards the court would not likely rule in their favor. This would be, of course, dictated by the autopsy results. Citizens are not empowered by the state or federal government to investigate crimes or handle misdemeanors but police are. When police investigate a crime and someone attacks them, if this is what happened, they are well within the law in detaining and arresting that person. You are comparing apples and oranges.
Posted on 2/28/14 at 2:34 pm to MrCarton
quote:
They want an excuse to be an a-hole. So, cooperation gets pushed and pushed until they get the result that they want, which is an excuse to be an a-hole.
I have seen this very behavior all over the world. It plays out exactly the same way as it does in America, except at least in foreign countries you can often bribe your way out instead of getting crushed to death in front of your wife and kids.
Good Lord! That has to be one of the most pessimistic views of the world and human nature I have ever seen. You don't sound like a happy person or a very fun guy to hang out with. To you genuinely believe that the majority of any group seeks confrontation over peace and turmoil over consistency?
Posted on 2/28/14 at 2:43 pm to Rickety Cricket
I'm a cop. I can tell you that I am apprehensive about making a judgment until all of the facts are known.
BUT.....if the evidence and investigation bear out that these officers acted outside of policy and the law....they should be charged just like anyone else.
It is a very unfortunate incident no matter the outcome of the investigation.
BUT.....if the evidence and investigation bear out that these officers acted outside of policy and the law....they should be charged just like anyone else.
It is a very unfortunate incident no matter the outcome of the investigation.
Posted on 2/28/14 at 2:44 pm to DanTiger
quote:
To you genuinely believe that the majority of any group seeks confrontation over peace and turmoil over consistency?
I do. I spent my entire adult life working around soldiers and cops. I understand the mentality, I understand where it comes from.
I am not nearly as negative or unpleasant as you think, but I don't take the militaristic behavior of police officers lightly, especially when it is funded and executed in my name.
This post was edited on 2/28/14 at 2:47 pm
Posted on 2/28/14 at 2:49 pm to DanTiger
quote:
To you genuinely believe that the majority of any group seeks confrontation over peace and turmoil over consistency?
As far as police go, if its not the majority its still a way to high percentage.
Posted on 2/28/14 at 2:56 pm to infantry1026
quote:
BUT.....if the evidence and investigation bear out that these officers acted outside of policy and the law....they should be charged just like anyone else.
And this is one of the main problems I, and probably many other posters, have when it comes to internal police investigations: I don't trust them. Too many of them end up as slaps on the wrist. I don't trust govt investigations in general; I without a doubt don't trust govt investigating govt.
Posted on 2/28/14 at 3:04 pm to Scruffy
quote:
I just don't like the direction police depts have been going, and I don't like how they get away with acts we would be locked away for.
I've seen changes in the past 20 years that are unsettling. Used to have a good friend who worked in Savannah, Ga and with the AST in Anchorage, and he agreed with me. Departments have become far to militaristic.
Posted on 2/28/14 at 3:05 pm to onmymedicalgrind
quote:
As far as police go, if its not the majority its still a way to high percentage.
I blame it on society in general. A few voices in the wilderness may cry "foul" but the overwhelming majority of people (IMO) want a very orderly society at the expense of the rights of others. They don't care what the police do as long as they keep the bad folks away from them.
Posted on 2/28/14 at 3:15 pm to DanTiger
quote:
You don't sound like a happy person or a very fun guy to hang out with
Irony.
I've known several cops personally, and NONE of them were neither happy, nor fun to hang out with.
Posted on 2/28/14 at 3:18 pm to RogerTheShrubber
quote:
I blame it on society in general. A few voices in the wilderness may cry "foul" but the overwhelming majority of people (IMO) want a very orderly society at the expense of the rights of others. They don't care what the police do as long as they keep the bad folks away from them.
Sad, but you are probably right. If this thread were more representative of America, it would be 5 Dawgfans for every one of me or you.
Posted on 2/28/14 at 3:19 pm to onmymedicalgrind
quote:
If this thread were more representative of America, it would be 5 Dawgfans for every one of me or you
This is definitely my belief.
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