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Started By
Message
re: Let’s get this clear once and for all: the internet is NOT a utility
Posted on 12/15/17 at 12:41 pm to ShortyRob
Posted on 12/15/17 at 12:41 pm to ShortyRob
quote:
Yup
Which is why it made me laugh.
You are trying to conflate the existence of competition(which there is) with "perfect competition".
Nice attempt at slight of hand.
I guess you thought I'd miss it.
We are going to keep going until you answer:
In the vast majority of markets there are not any perfect substitutes to your regional ISP/cable company. For many, if you want definition high speed broadband there is only one game in town. On top of that, the industry enjoys enormous amounts of regulatory capture at the state, local, and as of this year, the federal level. The barriers to entry are incredibly high. Often the necessary infrastructure costs to be a true competitor will run you into the 100's of millions of dollars on top of expensive ongoing operating expenses. That to break even requires a large marketshare, which often is not economically viable in smaller communities. The infrastructure being built requires use of shared resources and creates issues of redundancy, a highly inefficient use of scarce resources. The imperfect substitutes that exist, like cell phones(just hope Verizon doesn't try and block you from tethering again), satellite internet, or DSL are often not available to all households and when they are are not adequate substitutes. Where they cost was more for speed and data, often having hard caps that will get hit after only a short period of heavy use. So they do not provide any sort of mechanism that truly would turn the market leader into a price taker or shift their behavior. It is also a market space that often is propped up by taxpayers, through direct investment and subsidization, which alone categorically differentiates it from other goods and services.
All coming in the larger context of the increasingly vital function the internet serves its citizenry. From leisure activity, to job seeking and performance, to education, often from elementary school up through college. The internet is a vital human resource that has only grown in its necessity for American life. It is therefore more than reasonable that like electricity, water, sanitation, and gas, that the resource be treated accordingly.
Back to the market dynamics discussion, when you look at that total industry context, the economic term that best defines this sort of market in most places is best categorized as a:
natural monopoly. is a monopoly in an industry in which high infrastructural costs and other barriers to entry relative to the size of the market give the largest supplier in an industry, often the first supplier in a market, an overwhelming advantage over potential competitors.
Which is exactly what we see in the vast majority of markets for current high speed land access internet. Some larger cities have been able to maintain one or two additional direct substitutes, but often the market is still not truly competitive and falls more in line with oligopoly traits. For a majority of the citizenry though they live with a defacto natural monopoly arrangement for an increasingly inelastic good.
This post was edited on 12/15/17 at 12:42 pm
Posted on 12/15/17 at 12:41 pm to EA6B
quote:
many off grid housing developments without them
Agreed, but this is both novel and, once again, you will need waivers or otherwise a certification that the off-grid property has equivalent to municipal level service to be occupied.
AND, once again, those waivers and certifications will give exactly 0 shits about internet.
Posted on 12/15/17 at 12:41 pm to ShortyRob
Still waiting for the explanation of how wireless changes the discussion.

Posted on 12/15/17 at 12:42 pm to asurob1
quote:
If you are bragging about your wealth on an anonymous internet forum, it's because you don't have any.
Agreed. Well. Sort of. I mean, I suppose some rubes who have money also brag about it.
But
There is no sense bragging on the net about the following even if true.
IQ
Strength
Speed
Money
Education
Dick Size
and probably a hundred other things.
I mean, ya can do it. But, no one is going to believe you.
Posted on 12/15/17 at 12:42 pm to Errerrerrwere
quote:
You’re a fricking loser, baw. It’s all good. You are a weakling quivering in a corner about the Paris Climate Agreement, NN, and Donald Trump.
Very low T
Right on cue Karla.
Losing a debate with someone so you resort to personal insults to deflect from your loss.
Good to see that despite the alter you haven't changed your posting style one bit.
Posted on 12/15/17 at 12:43 pm to ShortyRob
quote:
There is no sense bragging on the net about the following even if true.
IQ
Strength
Speed
Money
Education
Dick Size
and probably a hundred other things.
Would the OT even exist if this were true?
Posted on 12/15/17 at 12:44 pm to ShortyRob
quote:
Agreed. Well. Sort of. I mean, I suppose some rubes who have money also brag about it.
But
There is no sense bragging on the net about the following even if true.
IQ
Strength
Speed
Money
Education
Dick Size
and probably a hundred other things.
I mean, ya can do it. But, no one is going to believe you.
Posted on 12/15/17 at 12:44 pm to bonhoeffer45
quote:Answer what?
We are going to keep going until you answer:
There is no need for a market to be perfectly competitive for competition to exist.
You can keep pretending that if you like.
Speaking of which. If you're going to demand an answer, shouldn't you actually ask a question?
Posted on 12/15/17 at 12:44 pm to asurob1
Getting all the cucks worked up in this thread. :rotlfmao:
shite, I even made one of the Buckeyes get in here; and he hasn’t been on this board in months.
ETA shouldn’t you be going down on NT74 by now?
shite, I even made one of the Buckeyes get in here; and he hasn’t been on this board in months.
ETA shouldn’t you be going down on NT74 by now?
This post was edited on 12/15/17 at 12:45 pm
Posted on 12/15/17 at 12:44 pm to olddawg26
quote:Exhibit A on how to tell someone is losing ground in a debate: they use ad hominem attacks against those being debated.
You’re a fricking loser, baw. It’s all good. You are a weakling quivering in a corner about the Paris Climate Agreement, NN, and Donald Trump.
Very low T
Posted on 12/15/17 at 12:45 pm to Errerrerrwere
I wrote a post yesterday that the true question is whether internet should be regulated as a utility.
It was ignored as usual for this board.
It was ignored as usual for this board.
Posted on 12/15/17 at 12:45 pm to HubbaBubba
quote:
With data of 18x that of HD, it'll be a long time before 8K becomes mainstream on the Internet. And forget 8k OTA as the current spectrum confines HD broadcasts to a usable 19.39 Mbps data rate.
Correct - but recall, it wasn't all that long ago that broadcasting in HD was novel. I don't want to underestimate the public's voracious demand for bandwidth - with the internet of things and all that, but 4k video is really the 600lb gorilla in the room right now - that dwarfs any other noncommercial use on a per stream basis and was a concern for upgrading the streaming services that do provide 4k video.
Like vehicular traffic, I believe that internet traffic will expand to meet capacity. On a related point, I don't believe that regulating internet services like a utility will do much to encourage increasing capacity. Just my $0.02.
Posted on 12/15/17 at 12:45 pm to HubbaBubba
Nah. Try having a discussion with that loser (Trump term) he actually believes all of that nonsense.
Posted on 12/15/17 at 12:45 pm to Errerrerrwere
I saw your other melt thread, Karla.
It was amazing. Just like old times...welcome back.
It was amazing. Just like old times...welcome back.
Posted on 12/15/17 at 12:47 pm to DisplacedBuckeye
quote:
I saw your other melt thread, Karla.
Errywhere is Karla?
Hell. I don't even know who the frick Karla was.
How on Earth have I been on this board for almost 10 years and I don't know who the frick one of the most commonly cited melts is?
Posted on 12/15/17 at 12:49 pm to ShortyRob
I’m actually his daddy. But I left when he was young. Which explains his constant need for attention from me. He needs me...
Posted on 12/15/17 at 12:49 pm to ShortyRob
Karla = KCT
Best melts around.
Best melts around.
Posted on 12/15/17 at 12:49 pm to Errerrerrwere
Lefties want us to be Europe West.
Posted on 12/15/17 at 12:49 pm to HubbaBubba
quote:
Exhibit A on how to tell someone is losing ground in a debate: they use ad hominem attacks against those being debated.
I must own him in every debate then
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