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re: Let's be clear about this: Russia is invading Ukraine right now
Posted on 8/27/14 at 11:30 am to LSU2NO
Posted on 8/27/14 at 11:30 am to LSU2NO
quote:
You don't think this is reminiscent of pre-WWII? Germany invading Poland, Czechoslovakia, Hungary?
Eerie and scary. Wake up world!
no.
Russia is flexing it's armpits within one of it's former states. It is nothing like Germany. After Putin steals some more land from Ukraine things will die down for a couple years until Putin decides to flex in another one of Russia's former states. Wash, rinse, repeat.
As to what the west's response should be.
You're seeing it.
1
Posted on 8/27/14 at 11:49 am to LSURussian
quote:
He is KGB and wants to re-establish the Russian empire. Being KGB (there is no such thing as former KGB) he is extremely smart but is still a thug.
The KGB identified the overachievers as early as 4 years old, took them from their parents and sent them to special schools their entire life.
It would be a mistake to think of Putin as a bumbling bureaucrat. He is playing the west like a fiddle to this point.
how much of this is trying to secure his position at home? i.e. war president angle.
I have read some analysis that this is part of his play, but you know, I don't know what to believe.
This whole situation is quite scary, but I can't really think of what we should do. I really think its up to europe to defend europe. We should support them but we can't be their daddy.
Posted on 8/27/14 at 11:56 am to Hawkeye95
quote:He's pretty secure already considering he completely controls the election process across Russia. Don't forget the last time he ran for President one oblast in Siberia released the vote results the day before the election was held. Putin got something like 85% of the vote in that oblast.
how much of this is trying to secure his position at home? i.e. war president angle.
I have not been to Russia in 11 years (I got out when Putin was coming in) so I don't have close contact with the Russians I knew back then.
If the rouble continues to tank, then Putin will lose some approval among the masses. The rouble is down 10% against the dollar this year.
Posted on 8/27/14 at 11:59 am to asurob1
quote:
You don't think this is reminiscent of pre-WWII? Germany invading Poland, Czechoslovakia, Hungary?
Eerie and scary. Wake up world!
no.
I read an article that said it was very-much like pre WWII. Germany was invading other territories bloodlessly to protect "ethnic speaking" Germans who had been displaced outside the borders of Germany when borders were drawn at the end of the previous war. Hitler did this after specifically saying he wouldnt. And Europe did nothing.
Sounds alot like Putin grabbing lanf to protect ethnic russians who were left outside russia after the collapse of the USSR. Putin did this (Crimea) after specifically saying he wouldnt. And Europe does nothing.
If this is even somewhat accurate, there are obvious parallels.
My disclaimer here is that i am not a historian and got that info from a single article. If i could find it is post it.
This post was edited on 8/27/14 at 12:01 pm
Posted on 8/27/14 at 11:59 am to LSURussian
quote:
He's pretty secure already considering he completely controls the election process across Russia. Don't forget the last time he ran for President one oblast in Siberia released the vote results the day before the election was held. Putin got something like 85% of the vote in that oblast.
I don't think he is at risk of losing his position, since the gov't is completely corrupt and in his control. no one with half of brain thinks he actually got 85% of the vote. But he does have to worry about popular discontent. or I think he would.
I followed russia closely in the cold war, even to the point of taking russian as a language. But I haven't followed it closely since yeltsin.
eta: thanks for your input.
This post was edited on 8/27/14 at 12:05 pm
Posted on 8/27/14 at 12:05 pm to LSURussian
quote:
If the rouble continues to tank, then Putin will lose some approval among the masses. The rouble is down 10% against the dollar this year.
Agree and the sanctions are having an impact as well as the fall in price of oil. Rosneft has asked the government for $42 billion because of shortfalls. Oil is about $100 per bbl and the Russian budget is based on $114 per bbl. Food prices are up and they are entering a recession. But the real deal breaker for Putin will be when dead Russians return from Ukraine. He's doubling down on the East Ukrainians and it better be over with quickly or Putin may not see the end of his term.
Posted on 8/27/14 at 12:09 pm to LSURussian
I wonder if a radio station is involved.
Posted on 8/27/14 at 12:19 pm to LSURussian
Where is the Ukrainian military?
Posted on 8/27/14 at 12:22 pm to LSU2NO
quote:
Let's be clear about this: Russia is invading Ukraine right now
You don't think this is reminiscent of pre-WWII? Germany invading Poland, Czechoslovakia, Hungary?
Eerie and scary. Wake up world!
republicans I tell ya.Posted on 8/27/14 at 12:28 pm to Old Hellen Yeller
quote:Fighting the pro-Russian rebels. Are you not keeping up with what's happening there?
Where is the Ukrainian military?
Posted on 8/27/14 at 12:28 pm to BobBoucher
quote:
If this is even somewhat accurate, there are obvious parallels.
yeah....
...no.
The world will never have another world wide conflict. The era of the mushroom cloud has ended that possibility.
Ironically, Ukraine gave up her nukes thanks to the west or she wouldn't be in this position right now.
Posted on 8/27/14 at 12:29 pm to asurob1
quote:
Ironically, Ukraine gave up her nukes thanks to the west or she wouldn't be in this position right now.
And no country will ever make that mistake again.
Posted on 8/27/14 at 12:31 pm to asurob1
quote:....and thanks to Yeltsin's Russia, too.
Ukraine gave up her nukes thanks to the west
It was an agreement to 'respect Ukraine's territorial integrity' between Russia, Ukraine, the US and the UK. It was NOT a defense pact on any of the party's part.
This post was edited on 8/27/14 at 1:10 pm
Posted on 8/27/14 at 12:32 pm to GeauxxxTigers23
quote:I don't think Ukraine would use nuclear weapons against Russia even if it still had them. That would be suicide.
And no country will ever make that mistake again.
Posted on 8/27/14 at 12:34 pm to LSURussian
quote:
I don't think Ukraine would use nuclear weapons against Russia even if it still had them. That would be suicide.
The simple threat of use would certainly have the world's attention (and likely intervention) and that really is all it would take to make the bear return to his den.
Lesson learned.
Posted on 8/27/14 at 12:38 pm to asurob1
quote:Your world is very simple. Unfortunately the real world isn't.
and that really is all it would take to make the bear return to his den.
Posted on 8/27/14 at 12:41 pm to LSURussian
I guess i should not have bumped my own thread but i find it strange how it broke on the news. Very obscure
Posted on 8/27/14 at 12:45 pm to LSURussian
quote:
Yes. They won't have the support of the majority ethnic Ukrainians in the central and west part of Ukraine. Besides, eastern Ukraine is where the manufacturing industry and natural resources are and that is what Putin wants.
Sounds a lot like the Sudetenland.
Posted on 8/27/14 at 12:53 pm to LSURussian
quote:
Your world is very simple. Unfortunately the real world isn't.
I know you desperately want to see a war between west and the russians over ukraine.
But it's not happening.
The threat of nuclear fire has all but ended any possibility of conflict between the major world powers.
We will never fight the chinese because we both have nukes. Etc etc etc.
If Ukraine had retained hers, Crimea would still belong to them.
Posted on 8/27/14 at 12:54 pm to asurob1
quote:In that case you are an idiot.
I know you desperately want to see a war between west and the russians over ukraine.
I stopped reading your stupidity-filled post after that.....
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