re: Jesse Kelly with the hard truth on the GOP abortion issue

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What’s your point? Midianite and Canaanite babies were killed by the Israelites. There weren’t all killed? But some of them were. Let’s focus on the ones that were killed. Are you going to argue that killing babies en masse is morally justified and “good”?

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Actually, I think there is an argument to be made for that. Most Christians believe Children who die before being to reason are saved. So on top of complete elimination of what was a truly evil culture, there is a very high probability they weee saved eternally. And before you say “that’s grotesque” please remember we also believe God allowed his own son to be tortured and slaughtered for the good of the world.

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Be careful with this logic, because they Israelites themselves practiced human sacrifice and did worship many other gods. What’s good for the goose is good for the gander. With that logic, if the Canaanite slaughter was justified because of that, then the Israelites should’ve been wiped out too.

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Plenty of Israelites were wiped out. The ground swallows a few of them whole.

Please point out where in the Bible we are encouraged to sacrifice children. You won’t find it anywhere. Because Israelites did it, doesn’t make it okay. The Old Testament is a continuous cycle of the Israelites turning from God, facing the consequences and turning back. Ultimately though, they are his people because through them he brought salvation.

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Why is it ridiculous? Husband suspects wife of adultery. Priest makes magic abortion potion as a test. If she’s guilty of adultery, she miscarries - the baby is killed by the potion. If she’s innocent, the unborn baby lives.

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First off you are making an assumption of pregnancy. Second in any other culture during that time period, the woman is automatically guilty. So here you’ve actually given a great example of what made Israel different from other cultures. Look at the ingredients of the “potion,” what in that is fatal? It protects women from abusive and jealous husbands. It instills in the people that there are consequences for sexual immorality. Once again, Israelites are being asked to live differently.

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You might be right. But Origen disagreed as he castrated himself (allegedly).

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So one guy potentially takes something too literally, therefore Jesus is actually evil? Cmon man.

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That’s not for you to decide.

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That's not for you to decide, either.

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That’s not for you to decide.

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Are we not still a democracy?

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We can’t decide to kill babies or humans based on what we think they might contribute to a future society.

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Yes you can.

It's a simple risk reward scenario.

It's pretty clear your plan will lead to more dead babies. Why is that acceptable to you?

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Either life has value or it doesn’t.

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Exactly. Your plan will lead to more dead babies. Why is that acceptable to you?

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It's pretty clear your plan will lead to more dead babies.

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So killing babies saves lives? Wow!

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So killing babies saves lives? Wow!

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Killing fewer babies saves lives, yes.

Your plan will lead to more baby murder. Why are you happy with that plan?

The mental gymnastics people do to justify abortion to themselves is really amazing to see. It’s also amazing to see God destroying this nation in real time and people still can’t see it and don’t change

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We vote either directly on issues or for reps who make laws to determine what is murder.

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Maybe we should allow these elite representatives to set up a moral court in which they decide by our past if we have contributed enough to society, and if not, they can sentence us to death. It’s for the good of society.

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By the way, anybody see my 45 degree line graph, showing Trump was responsible for inflation?

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I'd love for you to explain how trillions printed during the Trump admin didn't cause inflation.

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Actually, I think there is an argument to be made for that.

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Ok so you are in the same moral objective standard that justifies the killing of babies en masse just like Dr. William Lane Craig. I understand your position and I disagree with it, but I won’t be able to convince you of my position that killing innocent babies is morally wrong, so let’s move on.

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we also believe God allowed his own son to be tortured and slaughtered for the good of the world.

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So that people can be saved from a hell that god created? Heard it before too, and it seems silly to me. Should we be gracious for the fireman who put out the fire in the burning building when he was the one who committed the arson in the first place?

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Please point out where in the Bible we are encouraged to sacrifice children. You won’t find it anywhere

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Exodus 22

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29“You shall not delay to offer from the fullness of your harvest and from the outflow of your presses. The firstborn of your sons you shall give to me. 30You shall do the same with your oxen and with your sheep: seven days it shall be with its mother; on the eighth day you shall give it to me.

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Let me break it down for you. All the firstborn males of humans, oxen, and sheep shall be with their mothers for 7 days, at which point they shall be given to god. It doesn’t mean that the baby boys, the calves, and the lambs become temple workers or priests. When these verses were written, the way any of these were sacrificed was by being killed on an altar and burned. Isaac was about to be given to God by Abraham… what was Isaac carrying? Firewood.

Ezekiel 20

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26and I defiled them through their very gifts in their offering up all their firstborn, that I might devastate them. I did it that they might know that I am the LORD.

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Sure, you will find throughout the Bible it says sacrificing of one’s children are detestable. The Bible wasn’t written by one person and certainly not a divine perfect being. It was written by different authors at different times. Some did child sacrifice. Some did not. Both of their opposing writings ended up in the same compilation.

God also accepted the sacrifice of Jepthah’s daughter and accepted the sacrifice of seven sons of Saul by David. You will find many biblical verses saying “do not sacrifice your children” and “quit sacrificing your children” and “so and so did evil in the site of the lord by passing his firstborn through the fire”… because it was a widespread normal practice that the elite priestly/scribal class was trying to stop.

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First off you are making an assumption of pregnancy.

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Yeah because
- it says the husband suspects adultery (what evidence would he have? Pregnancy?)
- the poison potion is given to the woman to achieve a result, to find out if she’s been cheating. What could have been a verifiable result for them?
- it literally states she will miscarry if she is guilty. She kind of has to be pregnant if she is going to potentially miscarry.

Numbers 5:22 NIV

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May this water that brings a curse enter your body so that your abdomen swells and your womb miscarries.” “’Then the woman is to say, “Amen. So be it.”

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Numbers 5:20 ESV

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May this water that brings the curse pass into your bowels and make your womb swell and your thigh fall away.’ And the woman shall say, ‘Amen, Amen.’

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What’s this about a ”thigh” falling away? The Bible uses euphemisms in Hebrew and then it’s up to the English translator to select the most likely accurate English words. Use context clues. Womb swells. “Thigh” rots and falls out. The “thigh” is the ambiguous Hebrew word. It’s like when they say the prostitute uncovered the man’s “foot” and she laid with him all night. Or when they are talking about horse dicks and donkey cum in Ezekiel 23:20 they use the words for “flesh” and “emissions” but in context we know what they are talking about. To deny Numbers 5 is an adultery test based on a pregnant woman is plain delusional.

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Look at the ingredients of the “potion,” what in that is fatal?

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water of bitterness that brings the curse

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Oh yeah bro it’s just Fiji water or Gatorade. No poison here!

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they will never, ever, ever allow you to frame the argument like this because it destroys their entire position.

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You may be confused as to what is being argued.

His comments were about a democratic society, and our votes do determine what is/isn't murder. Self defense, stand your ground, justifiable homicide, etc. are all killings but not murder. Why? Democratic processes.

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they will never acknowledge that abortion is killing a human

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Did you ignore my response to him?

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Killing fewer babies saves lives, yes.

Your plan will lead to more baby murder. Why are you happy with that plan?

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