re: Is it OK to form your own opinion on issues, or should you stick to the party line?

I appreciate you reading/listening. Typing the same thing over and over gets tiresome, but the cause is worth it. I found one of my posts from a few weeks ago, and will copy/paste it here.

If you're interested, or just like hearing a good story, you should check out the first hour or two of Darryl Cooper's "Fear and Loathing, The New Jerusalem". He does an excellent job of describing the situation of the Jews and those in what now is Israel, in the late 1800's and 1900's. It's about as graphic as you can get in audio. He helps the listener understand both sides of the story, and has been criticized by both side of being too empathetic to the other side.

It's an easy way to learn history, and Darryl makes it interesting. He has many other history podcasts that are worth the time, and very entertaining.

Here's a good debate about the value of the current relationship of Israel/USA, to the USA. Simple stuff to understand.
Dave Smith & Josh Hammer Debate Value of US-Israel relationship

Here's my copy/paste from earlier. It's not comprehensive, but maybe enough to generate thoughts or conversation:

Thank you for taking the time to respond. I truly enjoy discussing important issues of our lifetime.

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Your emotion has left you unable to form a coherent OP.


Interesting observation.

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Are you talking about Israel/Hamas? I haven't seen any US attacks in Gaza. Can you link them?


I'm not sure if you are naive, or just not informed. The USA sends Israel billions to buy their defense weapons, and they buy them from US contractors. (Pretty obvious money laundering, right?) And then Israel drops US made bombs on Gaza, many with our proud American Flag still on them. And conservative estimates are that at least 10% of bombs don't explode, so there are a lot of little American flags scattered throughout Gaza.

So, bombs paid for with your (and my) tax dollars are being dropped on Gaza. So, yes, you have seen US attacks on Gaza. And yes, everyone in the world knows that the USA (you and me, and all of our kids) are complicit in everything Gaza.

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Or are you talking about the Houthis? Our merchant vessels were attacked in an international shipping lane. If you think we shouldn't allow our merchant vessels to conduct trade anywhere we want, then you want "no-go" zones in Muslim areas. How very French of you.


Most in that region don't like Israel, because they act like big dogs, killing and taking as much land as possible from the people that were there before them. (since 1900). And they couldn't have done any of it on their own without the UK, and now without the USA.

And the people in the region do what little they can to protest, by lobbing cheap bombs at whatever assets are in the area. Hence, the Houthis protesting Israel murdering half a million people, with US taxpayer support.

And yes, we respond by launching $1.5million missiles at Yemen. (Not appropriated to Israel, just from the slush fund of borrowed tax dollars that the pentagon can't account for)

And Trump is holding hands with Bibi Netanyahu and Israel. And hence every American continues to inherit all enemies of Israel, and fiscally pay for Israel's expansion. Forever war? Well, he has the ability to pause it, and he hasn't yet.

So, emotional for me? Yea, kinda. I'm 61, have kids and a grandkid. And we're spending their money to kill other kids for Israel's expansion. It kinda gets to me.

Again, I appreciate your response, and I don't need to insult you personally to discuss my point of view.

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Only a stupid fricking Democrat Libtard would ask a question like that. That thought would never even cross the mind of a conservative America first person.

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Interesting observation.

I thought your premise was that Trump is putting Israel's interests before the USA's. Nothing you posted shows that in any way.

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I thought your premise was that Trump is putting Israel's interests before the USA's. Nothing you posted shows that in any way.

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I'm guessing you didn't take the time to listen to the debate I linked for you. Dave Smith does a much better explaining that I will. But I"ll give it a shot.

And I'll appreciate your response.

1. We spend more to support Israel than any other country on this planet. That money is the money earned by Americans, borrowed by Americans, and printed by Americans (that causes inflation). We need that money here. We have a debt of $36 trillion. And our infrastructure is crumbling. We pay out the behind for healthcare. And yet Israeli citizens have government funded healthcare.

2. Virtually everything we do in their region garners more enemies for US citizens. Most of the world dislikes us because they see Israel as an unwelcome bully in the region that kills by the tens of thousands. And we directly aid them. We now have enemies strictly because of our sponsorship of Israel. New Year's Day in NOLA comes to mind. And maybe 9-11?

3. We are helping to kill tens, or by Trump's math, hundreds of thousands of women, children and men. In the US, we call that Murder I. In Israel, it's just the norm now. Whatever it takes to expand the land control to call it "Israel".
Obviously, this is lost on many, because they can blame everything on Hamas, without looking to history prior to Oct 7, 2023. Again, take an hour or two to listen to Darryl Cooper's history. Both sides do terrible things. Enough so, for us to stay on the fence. Not sacrifice our own lives for them.

4. The real possibility of Israel coaxing us into a larger war with Iran, and whoever decides to come to their aid. Even more dollars and American lives down the drain.

I appreciate you being openminded enough to read my words, and welcome your thoughts.

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You're still saying "we" and "America" instead of saying exactly what it is you believe TRUMP is doing to put Israel before the USA.

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1. Bombing Yemen for Israel.

2. Continuing to support Israel with their continued killing of anything alive in Gaza.

3. Support for Israel in taking the land of Gaza.

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1. Bombing Yemen for Israel.


I disagree that this was "for Israel." The rebels threatened to target "Israeli ships," but their track record shows that their definition of "Israeli ships" is vast. Claiming this was done solely for Israel shows a willingness to ignore the historical evidence of what they actually mean. They've even launched attacks on American warships in the area.

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2. Continuing to support Israel with their continued killing of anything alive in Gaza.

3. Support for Israel in taking the land of Gaza.


These are odd additions to this list. How is this putting Israel before the USA? How is Hamas continuing to control Gaza in the best interests of the USA? How would Israel controlling that region be against the best interests of the USA?

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If you choose to not investigate, and to parrot the words of Foxnews, our conversation is pointless.

Surely you read the conversation of the Signal chat where JD Vance pointed out that only 4% of the trade through the Suez is US related, and that 40% is European, and that they should let Europe do their own bidding. But his warhawk friends Waltz and Rubio couldn't wait to drop US bombs.


How is Israel wanting to control Gaza in the interest of the US? That's what we're spending money on and killing for.

I'm fine with Israel taking and killing whatever they want that's not US. It's not in our best interest when it's done with our money and creates enemies for the US.

It's really not complicated. It's an Israel First policy, at the US's expense.

I appreciate your conversation, but I don't think I can say it any more simply.