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Started By
Message
re: Iran hasn’t started a war with anyone
Posted on 4/30/18 at 6:18 pm to StraightCashHomey21
Posted on 4/30/18 at 6:18 pm to StraightCashHomey21
quote:
Name one ME country who could stop Iran without using nukes in modern warfare.
The Jordanians in coordination with Israel could absolutely defeat Iran. Personally, I have zero doubt that Israel alone could eliminate any threat posed by Iran.
People forget that Iran was fought to a standstill by the same vaunted Iraqi army that the United States and company rolled through in a matter of weeks, twice.
2
Posted on 4/30/18 at 6:21 pm to geauxnavybeatbama
I’m really hoping we can get into another war...it’s been a great 15+ years.
Posted on 4/30/18 at 6:21 pm to cr32pll29
Israel could defend its own territory very well and project air and limited naval power. A ground invasion of Iran would be out of the question. Iran could lob missiles and wage asymmetrical war via proxies. A ground invasion of Israel would likewise be out of the question.
Posted on 4/30/18 at 6:25 pm to 10MTNTiger
quote:
People forget that Iran was fought to a standstill by the same vaunted Iraqi army that the United States and company rolled through in a matter of weeks, twice.
At the same time, officer purges and various equipment failures crippled Iran's military.
An invasion of Iran would be, in my view, disastrous, not because the US wouldn't roll through Iran to Tehran fairly easily, but because the terrain, contacts Iran has with Southern Iraq, and Iran's focus on asymmetrical warfare, which when combined with Iran's terrain, lead me to believe that such an invasion would be a quagmire on a scale greater than Iraq. You'd be dealing with a more populous country, a fiercely proud people (Iranians on the internet estimate that at least 7-10 million people would be eager to defend their homeland despite not agreeing with the government) and a military that has cut its teeth undermining the US in Iraq and Afghanistan.
Posted on 4/30/18 at 6:25 pm to geauxnavybeatbama
They committed an act of war against the USA in 1979, we just had a chickenshit President at the time.
Posted on 4/30/18 at 6:27 pm to crazy4lsu
The goverment of Iran may be a little loony, but the people of that country does not deserved to be bombed to the middle ages just to make israel happy.
Posted on 4/30/18 at 6:28 pm to wareaglepete
The US goverment has intervened in countless countries during the last 100 years, just to protect economic interests, we do not hold the moral high ground.
This post was edited on 4/30/18 at 6:35 pm
Posted on 4/30/18 at 6:29 pm to geauxnavybeatbama
One lesson we should have learned from the Cold War is that proxy wars are still wars and they should be fought with the same mentality. We lost 50k+ soldiers in Vietnam and actually weakened our position in the Cold War because we (Democratic party) didn't have the guts to win a prolonged conflict.
Every time Hamas or any other Iranian proxy gives us an excuse we should utterly destroy them and send the message that we're not in the business of meaningless counter-punching.
Every time Hamas or any other Iranian proxy gives us an excuse we should utterly destroy them and send the message that we're not in the business of meaningless counter-punching.
Posted on 4/30/18 at 6:37 pm to NikolaiJakov
quote:
Every time Hamas or any other Iranian proxy gives us an excuse we should utterly destroy them and send the message that we're not in the business of meaningless counter-punching.
Did you know that hamas was created by the israeli goverment as a way to counter arafat organisation?
Posted on 4/30/18 at 6:38 pm to cr32pll29
quote:
The goverment of Iran may be a little loony, but the people of that country does not deserved to be bombed to the middle ages just to make israel happy
We are more alike than different. Now let’s hope there are at least some on both sides making decisions that understand or care about that fact.
Posted on 4/30/18 at 6:42 pm to StraightCashHomey21
(no message)
This post was edited on 1/10/21 at 5:56 am
Posted on 4/30/18 at 6:44 pm to cr32pll29
Honestly, I care more about the Americans who would be hurt and killed than I do about the Iranians.
Posted on 4/30/18 at 6:46 pm to crazy4lsu
quote:
Honestly, I care more about the Americans who would be hurt and killed than I do about the Iranians.
And that is normal and understandable, and that is why we should stay away from such escalation.
Posted on 4/30/18 at 6:48 pm to crazy4lsu
quote:
Honestly, I care more about the Americans who would be hurt and killed than I do about the Iranians.
It’s only natural to feel this way. Still, war is nothing to celebrate like many seem to..each civilian casualty is a persons son, daughter, mother, father, etc. not to mention the same being true of the combatants. I’ve never experienced it first hand and I thank God for that. We are all his children, even those who have yet to acknowledge the message of Christ.
Posted on 4/30/18 at 7:01 pm to cr32pll29
quote:
And that is normal and understandable, and that is why we should stay away from such escalation.
As long as Iran is out in the cold, things will teeter on escalation. I personally think the nuclear deal was a good start on dialogue, but not an end to itself. If you pair the nuclear deal with aggressive trade measures, the extremely liberal portion of Iran's populace might drive change. The protests since 2009 in Iran have lacked the Iranian middle class, which was key in 1979, and sanctions have seemingly only helped the regime because it can ostracize and target dissidents, as well as play into fears that Iran is the next target for imperial ambitions. The desire to avoid being dominated again is a key feature of post-colonial Iranian politics. It drove Mosaddegh, it drove 1979, and it will continue to play a large role in Iranian politics.
In this sense you have to consider the larger geopolitical dynamics. Turkey was formerly the Ottoman Empire, and was never colonized by the West. It also dominated West Asia and North Africa for 800 or so years. Persian empires and peoples have dominated the West/Central axis of Asia, even going as far south as North India, for a millennia. The damage to the psyche of the Iranians was different than that of the Turks, but both want to return to hegemonic positions that they traditionally held, while Arab (and now Israeli) groups want to avoid being dominated by the Turko-Persian culture, which was the dominate cultural force for most of recent West and Central Asian history.
This is why I've consistently asserted that Iranian aspirations would exist if Iran was secular and within the US's orbit. This reading also explains Turkey's aims in Syria and the Levant in general. That Shia politics is the method, the organizing principle, of that desire of domination, which enables it to work across ethnic boundaries and appeal to the religious sensibilities of groups that are oft-persecuted makes Shia politics the key factor in this particular geopolitical exercise.
Posted on 4/30/18 at 7:21 pm to cr32pll29
That wasn’t the OP topic. Stay on point. Go get your adderall.
Posted on 4/30/18 at 7:28 pm to crazy4lsu
quote:
Neither Iran nor Israel want open warfare.
Israel doesn't but I think Iran would be down for it were it not for Saudi under Salman's leadership. I have thought for a while Salman is spoiling for a fight with Iran and is just looking for the right provocation. Saudi and Israel have been warming up to each other lately and I think that has Iran shitting their pants.
Posted on 4/30/18 at 7:42 pm to Bard
quote:
Israel doesn't but I think Iran would be down for it
I don't think they would, for a couple of reasons. First, their hold on the country isn't so strong and anything other than a defensive war would lead to massive protests. Iran's aims in Syria, Palestine, and Iraq have already met with protests, but they've recruited from the Afghan refugee population (mainly Hazaras) and from Pakistani Shia for boots on the ground as to mitigate blowback. Secondly, MBS hasn't done anything to mitigate their aims, as his Lebanese gambit didn't work. MBS did promise money for reconstruction of Iraq, and specifically talked to Al-Sadr, where he gave the impression he would be willing to talk to the Iranians.
Open warfare, at this point, would be disastrous domestically for Iran in every situation save for a defensive war. I can't stress that enough. Every day I see various videos and reports of protests as their economy gets worse. I posted a video earlier in this thread of Javed Zafir giving a conciliatory tone to the Saudis, and being explicit about how neither could be the hegemon, and how that desire for hegemony destroyed the region.
I also don't think Iran is shitting their pants either, as with the proxy situation as it is, with the variety of assets they have, they can always retain deniability, which is a key feature of the regime. Nothing has been done to deal with the proxy situation, and in fact, the proxies for Iran make open warfare for Israel and KSA much more complicated, as it would involve numerous other countries.
Posted on 4/30/18 at 7:45 pm to geauxnavybeatbama
So are we packing A Bags or not?
This back and fourth has to got to stop. Either we’re in or we’re out. Someone needs to make up their minds already.
This back and fourth has to got to stop. Either we’re in or we’re out. Someone needs to make up their minds already.
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