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re: Interesting how "Evangelicals" are separating themselves from "Protestants".
Posted on 10/7/25 at 7:46 pm to FooManChoo
Posted on 10/7/25 at 7:46 pm to FooManChoo
quote:
Enlighten me. It's tough to get you to provide your own arguments in these discussions,
Because we have a ton of apologists that have done the work for us and you guys reject all of them for the most part.
We aren't theological scholars. Go to mass, live the sacrements, dont commit mortal sin and go to confession if you did (although not the only remedy just the surest thing). Love one another as you would love Christ and Christ would love you.
Couple other things im probably missing in the moment but thats the gist of it.
This post was edited on 10/7/25 at 7:50 pm
2
Posted on 10/7/25 at 7:49 pm to Squirrelmeister
quote:
the first temple was polytheistic
quote:
Just because the biblical texts (mostly written or at least redacted and edited during the Persian and Greek periods of second temple Judaism) say worshipping other deities was bad, and was the cause of the exiles of the Israelite and Judahite royalty and high society, doesn’t mean that it is accurately recording real history
"Our best source and eyewitness is lying." You can't be serious with this quote:Prove it
The Hebrew Bible records a false history
quote:No there aren't and that is stupid.
there are hints and clues of their first temple polytheism all throughout the Bible still
quote:
all we have to do is look at the archaeological evidence which proves the Jews were worshipping many gods in Jersusalem deep into the Persian period
Did they occasionally slip into idol worship? Yes. It was ALWAYS condemned in their society and beliefs. quote:It was never considered canonical other than by some extremists who barely qualify as Jewish
Martin Luther ripped it out of your Bible. It’s in mine, and is in the Septuagint and the Dead Sea scrolls
quote:You mean relying on the evidence
You are falsely presuming “Jewish” was monolithic
quote:What "sects" considered deuterocanonical books canonical? Let's see if you catch the joke
There were many sects with many different beliefs
quote:Does NOT equal divinely authoritative. But you knew that didn't you?
extremely important and influential
I wish I could understand how a person gets so lost. You're basically saying don't believe your eyes. Your eyes are lying to you. The sky is really green, not blue
Posted on 10/7/25 at 7:54 pm to gaetti15
quote:You can say that but I know Catholics personally.
thats some straight up BS
quote:The Bible tells us that people in God's presence (i.e. "heaven") are not concerned with earthly things. They do not pray for people. It is a complete waste of time to pray to saints or to Mary
I also have the ability for my brothers and sisters in heaven that came before me (i.e. Saints) to pray for me as well
Posted on 10/7/25 at 7:55 pm to gaetti15
quote:You mean someone's attitude can overcome God's attempts to reach them?
Do you believe in invincible ignorance?
Posted on 10/7/25 at 7:57 pm to somethingdifferent
quote:
You can say that but I know Catholics personally.
whoopdi doo Basil quote:
The Bible tells us that people in God's presence (i.e. "heaven") are not concerned with earthly things. They do not pray for people. It is a complete waste of time to pray to saints or to Mary
LINK
Posted on 10/7/25 at 8:00 pm to gaetti15
quote:Do they say unbiblical things? Horn and Akin do.
you guys reject all of them for the most part
quote:Wow. No evangelism in there. The most important, number one thing every believer should do. Unbelievable. Are you not broken hearted for lost people? This matches everything I have seen about Catholicism and Catholic explanations.
Go to mass, live the sacrements, dont commit mortal sin and go to confession if you did (although not the only remedy just the surest thing). Love one another as you would love Christ and Christ would love you.
quote:Wow
Couple other things im probably missing in the moment but thats the gist of it
Posted on 10/7/25 at 8:02 pm to somethingdifferent
quote:
somethingdifferent
Get off your high horse you Baptist.
This post was edited on 10/7/25 at 8:03 pm
Posted on 10/7/25 at 8:04 pm to somethingdifferent
quote:
Did they occasionally slip into idol worship? Yes. It was ALWAYS condemned in their society and beliefs.
Wrong, and no serious historian believes this. It’s historically stupid.
Posted on 10/7/25 at 8:05 pm to somethingdifferent
quote:
Are you not broken hearted for lost people?
You think lost people are Catholics, im sorry you believe that and i hope one day you become part of the church that Jesus christ instituted.
The sacraments are a beautiful thing. The Eucharist is the source of all life.
Posted on 10/7/25 at 8:06 pm to somethingdifferent
quote:
Let's go. Show your evidence that the Jews were thoroughgoing polythesists
Show your evidence (other than the Bible, which even then is a little mushy) that they weren’t.
Posted on 10/7/25 at 8:09 pm to somethingdifferent
quote:
There is no evidence. Some people have tried but it's completely silly.
Doofus, the Israelites were Cannanites. They spoke the same language and had the same cultural and religious practices. It’s not silly at all.
Posted on 10/7/25 at 8:33 pm to somethingdifferent
quote:
I'm having trouble believing that you're serious. Have you ever heard of a manual that says "important things about the operation of this are not included in this manual and they are applicable to the warranty"?
This is still not an answer. You are reading your opinion into Scripture.
quote:
Jesus quoted scripture as the authoritative word of God. He NEVER hinted that there was something indispensible to salvation outside of the word of God. He never talked about something being authoritative over someone outside of the word of God. Is Jesus' teaching good enough for you?
Again, give me Scriptural proof that all authority exists only in Scripture, not your emotional opinion.
quote:
Matthew 5:18, God's word is sufficient to accomplish ALL THINGS. God's word needs no help. Moreover, Jesus accomplished all things in that he consummated the kingdom. He needed no help outside of himself. the OT pointed to a savior, the messiah. Jesus fulfilled that perfectly. There is no need for a magisterium or Sacred Tradition or Apostolic succession or the Visible Church or sacraments, etc. Jesus fulfilled the need for everything the Catholic church represents. He sums up the redemption story.
This paragraph is a very long non-sequitur.
quote:
And I did notice the sleight of hand in circumventing the question. If you believe that there are authoritative traditions outside of scripture, show me the evidence. Show me the words of Jesus or the Apostles. Otherwise, it can't possible be authoritative or necessary for salvation. If you don't have a quote from Jesus, how would you know that it's authoritative other than some people from hundreds of years later told you so. It's absolutely the equivalent of "trust me, bro"
(1.) From John, we know that the Holy Spirit provided teaching outside of the words spoken by Jesus. Now, you provide evidence that specific Traditions - as you state - are not part of these teachings.
(2.) Textual proof exists that there were teachings handed on to the Apostles that we do not know from the text of Scripture. Can you refute this?
(3.) You ask for textual proof of authority from Scripture, with the implication (or unless I misread your post, outright statement) that if it's not in Scripture, it's not authoritative. We still haven't established your premise that all authority is contained only in Scripture.
So again, I ask for proof. It's no sleight of hand; if you make the claim, provide supporting proof.
This post was edited on 10/7/25 at 8:34 pm
Posted on 10/7/25 at 8:51 pm to somethingdifferent
quote:
Wow. No evangelism in there. The most important, number one thing every believer should do. Unbelievable
Also I evangelized my wife. Who was mormon (via her dad's family) and moravian (via her mom's family).
Hardest thing ive done in my life.
But you know what sealed the deal? Watching a huge cohort of folks in our parish being baptized and confirmed on Easter Vigil.
Very powerful stuff.
Score three to zero...the good guys (kids are also Catholic)
This post was edited on 10/7/25 at 8:55 pm
Posted on 10/7/25 at 8:56 pm to somethingdifferent
quote:
The Bible tells us that people in God's presence (i.e. "heaven") are not concerned with earthly things. They do not pray for people. It is a complete waste of time to pray to saints or to Mary
Please share the language of the specific passage(s) you are referencing.
Posted on 10/7/25 at 9:00 pm to Champagne
quote:Perhaps in this hypothetical, I would treat you as a brother and be glad for the service you are rendering. Upon further examination, I find you are Roman Catholic. I ask about what you are trusting in for your salvation and discover that you trust in things beyond just the work of Christ on the cross received by faith alone, and then we're back to what I've been saying to you all along. I would call you to repentance and faith in Jesus Christ for your salvation.
I'm asking you a direct question about my hypothetical self there doing missionary work with the hypothetical you there in Africa. We are doing the same work side by side.
I have made it clear that when your hypothetical self asked me Why I was doing the Lord's work in Africa, I responded thusly:
"I am doing this work for no Salvific reasons other than because I love the Lord and because the Lord commands me to love my neighbor as myself."
Is my work, then, according to you, pleasing to the Lord God or is He angry and sending me to Hell because I have violated the Doctrine of Faith Alone? Are my good works "covered by the blood of Christ"?
quote:The Westminster Confession of Faith affirms this:
And do you really mean it when you say that if my missionary work helping starving people in Africa is counted as Sin in God's Eyes unless my deeds are "covered by the blood of Christ"? If so, where is that in the Bible?
Works done by unregenerate men, although for the matter of them they may be things which God commands, and of good use both to themselves and others; yet because they proceed not from a heart purified by faith, nor are done in a right manner, according to the Word, nor to a right end, the glory of God; they are therefore sinful, and cannot please God, or make a man meet to receive grace from God. And yet their neglect of them is more sinful and displeasing unto God.f
I already provided a few verses to support this claim, but I'll do it again:
"For whatever does not proceed from faith is sin" - Rom 14:23
"And without faith it is impossible to please [God]" - Heb 11:6
"The sacrifice of the wicked is an abomination to the Lord" -Pro 15:8
"I hate, I despise your feasts, and I take no delight in your solemn assemblies. Even though you offer me your burnt offerings and grain offerings, I will not accept them; and the peace offerings of your fattened animals, I will not look upon them. Take away from me the noise of your songs; to the melody of your harps I will not listen. But let justice roll down like waters, and righteousness like an ever-flowing stream." -Amos 5:21-24
"For the mind that is set on the flesh is hostile to God, for it does not submit to God's law; indeed, it cannot. Those who are in the flesh cannot please God" -Rom 8:7-8
I could go on and on, including how the Lord will reject even those who perform miracles in His name, saying He never knew them, but I think the point is made.
quote:I hope my thinking is sound, considering it is based on the infallible word of God rather than the fallible traditions of men.
What's the purpose of my questions? I'm trying to discern the soundness of your thinking.
Posted on 10/7/25 at 9:05 pm to gaetti15
quote:You could at least put the in your own words to show you understand it. God calls us all to be prepared to give a defense for the hope that is within us. We shouldn't cede apologetics to the "experts", but should seek to grow knowledge and understanding so we can give a defense for what we believe.
Because we have a ton of apologists that have done the work for us and you guys reject all of them for the most part.
In the age of the internet, this is even easier, as it's easy to find the answers from our favorite apologists and resources to jog our memories or help us with our responses.
quote:You all engage in these discussions on an internet forum and then back off when asked to support your assertions. I would think Catholics would have an easier time than others, as you have many centuries of well thought out doctrines to reference. I understand why I get pointed to the Catholic Catechism and Catholic Answers so often. I would prefer to engage with people, not papers, though.
We aren't theological scholars. Go to mass, live the sacrements, dont commit mortal sin and go to confession if you did (although not the only remedy just the surest thing). Love one another as you would love Christ and Christ would love you.
Couple other things im probably missing in the moment but thats the gist of it.
Posted on 10/7/25 at 9:07 pm to FooManChoo
quote:
hope my thinking is sound, considering it is based on the infallible word of God rather than the fallible traditions of men.
Yeah but yall like to pluck phrases or verses out of the Bible and state that they indefinitely prove your point...without taking any context of the paragraph or multiple paragraphs they are included in.
Not saying you do it all the time, but it is frequent in Protestant circles.
And ya'll fail to realize that in some cases their can be multiple interpretations.
Posted on 10/7/25 at 9:07 pm to gaetti15
quote:Jesus Christ is the source of all life, and He and His benefits are received by faith.
The Eucharist is the source of all life.
Posted on 10/7/25 at 9:08 pm to somethingdifferent
quote:
Jesus quoted scripture as the authoritative word of God. He NEVER hinted that there was something indispensible to salvation outside of the word of God.
He wasn’t quoting the same scripture that you quote though.
Posted on 10/7/25 at 9:10 pm to FooManChoo
quote:
You could at least put the in your own words to show you understand it. God calls us all to be prepared to give a defense for the hope that is within us. We shouldn't cede apologetics to the "experts", but should seek to grow knowledge and understanding so we can give a defense for what we believe.
I understand somethings but dont claim to be an expert in anything.
Anything in Catholic answers that I have posted os sonething that I agree is a good representation of how I feel, else I wouldn't share. I would do a disservice explaining these things in my own personal words as folks like you will rip me up because of a miniscule error. Thus, read the shite i post.
I almost never get responses from folks when I post those links. Because in most cases yall dont bother to read them.
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