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re: If the Dems are so opposed to socialism

Posted on 3/3/20 at 9:40 pm to
Posted by funnystuff
Member since Nov 2012
8975 posts
Posted on 3/3/20 at 9:40 pm to
I’m a college professor, one of my sisters is a high school teacher, and my other sister is a grade school teacher. Yea, I am familiar with teacher’s unions.

I get what they try to do, and it’s noble. I also know that they consistently fail in that intent.

My argument is not that teacher’s unions need to go away. My argument is that they need to change their priority to incentivize success rather than protect mediocrity.
This post was edited on 3/3/20 at 9:41 pm
Posted by LSUconvert
Hattiesburg, MS
Member since Aug 2007
6622 posts
Posted on 3/3/20 at 9:41 pm to
quote:

My argument is that they need to change their priority to incentivize success rather than protect mediocrity.


That is not the goal of a union. Incentivizing success is the role of the employer.
Posted by funnystuff
Member since Nov 2012
8975 posts
Posted on 3/3/20 at 9:44 pm to
quote:

That is not the goal of a union
My argument is that it should be. Especially in a field that is as critical to the success of our country as education, I believe we have a moral obligation to recruit, train, and provide the highest quality educators possible.
This post was edited on 3/3/20 at 9:45 pm
Posted by LSUconvert
Hattiesburg, MS
Member since Aug 2007
6622 posts
Posted on 3/3/20 at 9:45 pm to
quote:

Especially in a field that is as critical to the success of our country as education, I believe we have a moral obligation to provide the highest quality educators possible.


These are all reasons that incentivizing success should be on the employer, which is the tax payers.

Let the unions do their job, we as the people need to do ours.
Posted by funnystuff
Member since Nov 2012
8975 posts
Posted on 3/3/20 at 9:48 pm to
The employers are state/local governments. And the teacher unions have prevented them from rewarding success by forcing uniform pay. You can’t simultaneously say that the employers should incentivize success and that the unions are correct in preventing success from being incentivized.
This post was edited on 3/3/20 at 9:49 pm
Posted by LSUconvert
Hattiesburg, MS
Member since Aug 2007
6622 posts
Posted on 3/3/20 at 9:50 pm to
quote:

And the teacher unions have prevented them from rewarding success by forcing uniform pay.


Unions cannot force anything, you should be well aware of this.

quote:

You can’t simultaneously say that the employers should incentivize success and that the unions are correct in preventing success from being incentivized.


Unions are correct in protecting their members. That is their one and only goal as a private enterprise.
Posted by PickupAutist
Member since Sep 2018
3038 posts
Posted on 3/3/20 at 9:50 pm to
Yes, dems have forgotten to pretend to be moderate while implementing their true agendas slowly. The commies and super woke wing are too retarded and lacking in political acumen to get this (fortunately).
Posted by funnystuff
Member since Nov 2012
8975 posts
Posted on 3/3/20 at 9:58 pm to
quote:

Unions cannot force anything
In theory, sure, “forced” is not a perfect word. In practice, you are surely aware that teacher’s unions wield significant political power. A teacher’s strike is basically a immediate death note for any politician within arm’s reach. So when teachers unions go to governments and say that uniform pay is non-negotiable, governments play ball.

This is a policy that unions specifically demanded. Trying to shirk off responsibility for that and saying “nuh un, that’s government’s fault” is nonsense.
quote:

Unions are correct in protecting their members.
In general, yes, of course I agree. But as it relates specifically to uniform pay, that is only protecting their low performing members. Not their good ones.
This post was edited on 3/3/20 at 10:02 pm
Posted by LSUconvert
Hattiesburg, MS
Member since Aug 2007
6622 posts
Posted on 3/3/20 at 10:05 pm to
quote:

This is a policy that unions specifically demanded.


Again, since you're aware they can't force anything, their demands are just negotiating pieces.

quote:

Trying to shirk off responsibility for that and saying “nuh un, that’s government’s fault” is nonsense.


You're not understanding. It's not the government's fault, it's just actually their responsibility in this equation. I am assigning blame to the party who's responsibility incentivizing pay is.

quote:

But as it relates specifically to uniform pay, that is only protecting their low performing teachers. Not their good ones.


No, they are protecting all teachers. A well performing teacher can become a bad performing one. Their job is not to only protect the good ones.

That bold point is one I think you're not really understanding. The private enterprise of a union exists to serve it's members. Are you suggesting that the union should step outside it's bounds and have goals outside of protecting it's members?

I'm sure to someone who is/has paid dues, the idea that the union would represent anyone but who they exist to represent, is a bit laughable.
Posted by funnystuff
Member since Nov 2012
8975 posts
Posted on 3/3/20 at 10:19 pm to
I’m not arguing that they should only protect good teachers. I’m arguing that they should stop actively harming them. Uniform pay suppresses wages for successful teachers. I don’t see how that can possibly be disputed.
Posted by LSUconvert
Hattiesburg, MS
Member since Aug 2007
6622 posts
Posted on 3/3/20 at 10:22 pm to
quote:

Uniform pay suppresses wages for successful teachers. I don’t see how that can possibly be disputed.


Tax payers suppress wages for teachers.
Posted by SouthdownsTiger4178
Member since Jun 2018
1951 posts
Posted on 3/3/20 at 10:30 pm to
Who wants to teach in an enviroment where students are not even prohibited from staying off cell phones.
Posted by LSUconvert
Hattiesburg, MS
Member since Aug 2007
6622 posts
Posted on 3/3/20 at 10:31 pm to
quote:

Who wants to teach in an enviroment where students are not even prohibited from staying off cell phones.


No one when the job pays like shite.
Posted by funnystuff
Member since Nov 2012
8975 posts
Posted on 3/3/20 at 10:34 pm to
The job wouldn’t pay like shite if you could get rewarded for success
Posted by LSUconvert
Hattiesburg, MS
Member since Aug 2007
6622 posts
Posted on 3/3/20 at 10:41 pm to
quote:

The job wouldn’t pay like shite if you could get rewarded for success


We are in total agreement on this.
Posted by Flats
Member since Jul 2019
26960 posts
Posted on 3/3/20 at 10:43 pm to
quote:

All it would take is good people choosing to get involved. Sadly that doesn’t happen enough.



It takes a ton of them, though. We got involved in a charter school when our youngest approached kindergarten. It ended up being very successful but the district fought it every step of the way. It came so close to closing so many times in the first few years I lost count. Almost 20 years later it’s a large-ish system (2 elementary, 2 middle, one high school) and still very successful, but it still just serves a fraction of the local public school district. And it took a TON of unpaid work; people won’t do that for regular public schools.
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