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re: If the civil war was about slavery, why’d they keep slaves in the North?
Posted on 5/23/25 at 11:02 am to FutureMikeVIII
Posted on 5/23/25 at 11:02 am to FutureMikeVIII
The Civil War was about the North having a power trip and not being mentally capable to co-exist with another nation with opposing values.
Posted on 5/23/25 at 11:02 am to Seldom Seen
quote:transatlantic slave trade was shut down on 1806, I believe.
Northern states were the slave traders. New York and Boston harbors were your two biggest slave ports.
Once that happened, New England got real "high horse" about slavery
Posted on 5/23/25 at 11:16 am to Roaad
Tell me if you agree.
I've always felt three things doomed the South from the beginning.
1. Lack of a Constitution giving a single powerful leadership structure. Great in peace time not so much in total war.
2. The Souths belief in King Cotton. Many don't realize the South burned millions of bails, and embargoed it's very own customers overseas to force recognition.
3. Started the war before ready. The hot heads from my home State of South Carolina. The North was not ready either so there was time. Time for unified rail, shipping and arms among many pre war construction projects. Time to cultivate foreign recognition.
I've always felt three things doomed the South from the beginning.
1. Lack of a Constitution giving a single powerful leadership structure. Great in peace time not so much in total war.
2. The Souths belief in King Cotton. Many don't realize the South burned millions of bails, and embargoed it's very own customers overseas to force recognition.
3. Started the war before ready. The hot heads from my home State of South Carolina. The North was not ready either so there was time. Time for unified rail, shipping and arms among many pre war construction projects. Time to cultivate foreign recognition.
Posted on 5/23/25 at 11:19 am to goatmilker
The only way that the South wins is to start the war in 1850.
Posted on 5/23/25 at 11:22 am to SaintsTiger
Interesting bit of history is that the 5 civilized tribes in Indian Territory were not required to free their slaves until 1866. Although they had all formally supported the Confederacy, they still had their rights as separate nations.
Since the Civil War started the US population had increased 10-fold! I wonder how many people now in the US have any ancestral connection to that war.
Since the Civil War started the US population had increased 10-fold! I wonder how many people now in the US have any ancestral connection to that war.
Posted on 5/23/25 at 11:26 am to goatmilker
The South was doomed for 2 real reasons:
Wanted to fight a defensive war
No plan to win, just fight
Wanted to fight a defensive war
No plan to win, just fight
Posted on 5/23/25 at 11:26 am to SaintsTiger
Since nuance died a long, long time ago, any discussion about this will devolve/already has devolved into silliness.
However, for the record, I stand by my analogy (or metaphor, if you like), the American Civil did not have "slavery" as its engine. The engine was an entire range of differences between North and South that extended to cultural, linguistic, vocational, ethnicity, "nativism", industry, philosophical/psychological even. The differences were stark even at the founding and the two broad regions continued to diverge.
However, the "fuel" for that engine was slavery. It's a subtle difference, but an important one.
However, for the record, I stand by my analogy (or metaphor, if you like), the American Civil did not have "slavery" as its engine. The engine was an entire range of differences between North and South that extended to cultural, linguistic, vocational, ethnicity, "nativism", industry, philosophical/psychological even. The differences were stark even at the founding and the two broad regions continued to diverge.
However, the "fuel" for that engine was slavery. It's a subtle difference, but an important one.
This post was edited on 5/23/25 at 11:27 am
Posted on 5/23/25 at 11:26 am to Lynxrufus2012
Perhaps but leaders from both sides including Jeff Davis did not want separation but compromise.
The South had its chances early on. By 1863 it was over.
The South had its chances early on. By 1863 it was over.
Posted on 5/23/25 at 11:28 am to Roaad
Wasn't it Jeff Davis who told commanders to defend ever inch of the Souths borders?
Posted on 5/23/25 at 11:31 am to goatmilker
Defensive wars are unwinnable, as a general rule of military history.
Lee knew that, which is why he invaded.
Lee knew that, which is why he invaded.
Posted on 5/23/25 at 12:08 pm to FutureMikeVIII
quote:
It was about the south wanting to maintain slavery.
Bull shite.. It was about money and power.
it's estimated that a small, but significant, percentage of slave owners in the United States were Black. Specifically, Black slaveholders were most concentrated in Louisiana, South Carolina, Virginia, and Maryland, with some states like South Carolina and Louisiana having a particularly high percentage of Black slave owners relative to the total number of free Black heads of families
Posted on 5/23/25 at 12:08 pm to Roaad
quote:
Are you saying the South went to war for slavery?
correct.
quote:
Because saying "The Civil War was about slavery for the South" is incorrect.
no. It is a popular cope among Southerners to reason themselves out, as we now see slavery as evil.But at the time the overwhelming majority of the economies of the South were inextricable from slavery.
Were there other reasons? Absolutely.
But there is a reason why the seceding states did so in the order of reliance on slave labor (heavy slave states, slave states, lower slave/border states). And also, every state that issued a proclamation giving reasons, listed slavery as the reason. I can provide you a litany of source documents confirming this.
Now if you want to argue that not every confederate fighting in the war fought for slavery, that is obviously true. But wars aren't created by soldiers, but by politicians and aristocrats.
Are you positing that the North went to war to free the slaves?
You can make an argument the South, or some States, seceded for slavery, but the war was about money and political power, not slavery.
Secession =/= war. Those are 2 different events. There was no war from Buchanan when the States seceded. Not until Lincoln was determined to collect the money was there war.
quote:
And also, every state that issued a proclamation giving reasons, listed slavery as the reason
Post Louisiana's declaration of secession.
This post was edited on 5/23/25 at 12:13 pm
Posted on 5/23/25 at 1:34 pm to Cuz413
quote:I have already answered this a few posts ago.
Are you positing that the North went to war to free the slaves?
quote:I and nearly every historian makes that case, it is revisionist cope to insinuate otherwise.
You can make an argument the South, or some States, seceded for slavery,
We're there ancillary reasons, yes. But secession was overwhelmingly slavery motivated.
quote:you bolded a portion that excluded a qualifying portion, which i underlined.
Post Louisiana's declaration of secession.
quote:
every state that issued a proclamation giving reasons,
This post was edited on 5/23/25 at 1:36 pm
Posted on 5/23/25 at 1:52 pm to Roaad
How my Dad used to teach the Civil War at Broadmoor High:
Democrats wanted to control black people, Republicans said "no"
Democrats wanted to control black people, Republicans said "no"
Posted on 5/23/25 at 2:10 pm to Roaad
quote:
I have already answered this a few posts ago.
What document or speech gives evidence that the South fought to preserve the institution of slavery when it was already protected via the Constitution and the Supreme Court as well as Lincoln himself stating the South could keep their slaves as long as they re-entered the Union?
The North definitely waged a war over the loss of money due to secession, not slavery.
Posted on 5/23/25 at 2:17 pm to zadams_318
quote:
opposing values.
Owning slaves values?
or Lynching values?
Posted on 5/23/25 at 2:18 pm to Tmcgin
quote:
Owning slaves values? or Lynching values?
Another very dumb post by the capacity challenged TMcgin. I guarantee you don’t post again in this thread. Your pathetic quip is all your limited intellect can muster. On to the next thread for you…
This post was edited on 5/23/25 at 2:19 pm
Posted on 5/23/25 at 2:55 pm to SaintsTiger
Another point to note was even Lincoln's own letters said he didn't care about slavery.
It is simple revisionist history.
It is simple revisionist history.
Posted on 5/23/25 at 3:25 pm to SaintsTiger
If Lincoln took away the slaves from the north some border stated would have joined the Confederate states. The North would have lost the war.
He took a big chance with his emancipation proclamation. It paid off for him.
He took a big chance with his emancipation proclamation. It paid off for him.
Posted on 5/23/25 at 3:28 pm to Tmcgin
quote:That's an uneducated statement.
Owning slaves values?
or Lynching values?
What slave owner wanted to hang something he had paid so much for?
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