re: I don't support regime change in Venezuela

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F That!! I have worked with and are friends with a few that were fortunate to escape from Venezuela. Maduro must go by whatever means necessary!!

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You need to read the post that is directly above yours.

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Easier than taking Quebec.

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Which is why Trump is picking on Venezuela.

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are heavily in bed with the Russians and the Chinese

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Have you thought about how that happened?

It isn't because Russia and China are constantly bullying them.

Same goes for countries in African where the Russians and Chinese have gained footholds.

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I was involved in two. Urgent Fury and Just Cause.

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Thank you for your service, but those were like an FBS team playing an HBCU team.

Fortunately, we lost very few soldiers, and the monetary cost was minimal.

Invading Venezuela would be more on the scale of the invasion and occupation of Afghanistan.

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We have a border. Secure it.

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There is very little global elite profit to be made from that tactic.

Might be easier to deal with now than in a decade when our enemies are more involved and our president ends up being some progressive jackass.

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You seem to have forgotten about Iran.

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Once again...a culture and religion that is foreign to western values.

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Grenada and Panama? Come on. That was like a grown man beating up children.

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What do you think Venezuela will be?

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It has in the western world. We carried out regime changes in Germany, Panama, Grenada, and Japan (heavily westernized) quite successfully in the past. It is in the Middle East, where the culture is so alien to us, that we have struggled. Despite this, however, Iraq has turned into something of a success story. Afghanistan was our only true L in the regime change department.

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Germany and Japan weren’t ‘regime change.’ They were the product of total war. That means unconditional surrender, every institution shattered, every military unit dismantled, borders redrawn, and the victors occupying the country with absolute authority. You’re comparing a situation where the old state was razed to the ground with modern regime change, where the goal is to swap governments without burning the entire society to the ground.

One is renovating the bathroom. The other is bulldozing the house and starting over. They do not belong in the same conversation.

Regime change is the opposite approach: keep the country standing, pull out the leadership, and hope the rest doesn’t collapse. That model has never worked consistently because you’re trying to swap the software without reinstalling the operating system.

Panama and Grenada were small, contained operations. If those are your ‘success stories,’ your bar is set below ground level.

So if your plan is to speed-run WWII every time you want a new government somewhere, go ahead and say that. But don’t pretend Iraq is evidence of success. It gave us civil war, sectarian cleansing, ISIS, and a permanently fractured state that only stabilized once we half-accidentally drifted into a quasi-occupation anyway.

If the only examples you can point to require world-ending war, total surrender, and generational rebuilding, congratulations you just proved the strategy doesn’t work under any conditions short of total war, which I assume is the opposite of what you were going for.

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Germany and Japan weren’t ‘regime change.’ They were the product of total war. That means unconditional surrender, every institution shattered, every military unit dismantled, borders redrawn, and the victors occupying the country with absolute authority.

You’re comparing a situation where the old state was razed to the ground with modern regime change, where the goal [Iraq] is to swap governments without burning the entire society to the ground.

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Well stated truth of the matter.

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One is renovating the bathroom. The other is bulldozing the house and starting over. They do not belong in the same conversation.

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Great analogy

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So if your plan is to speed-run WWII every time you want a new government somewhere, go ahead and say that. But don’t pretend Iraq is evidence of success. It gave us civil war, sectarian cleansing, ISIS, and a permanently fractured state that only stabilized once we half-accidentally drifted into a quasi-occupation anyway.

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Ooof. Bullseye.