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re: I dont know if Isreal planned it this way....

Posted on 6/16/25 at 10:00 am to
Posted by BBONDS25
Member since Mar 2008
57225 posts
Posted on 6/16/25 at 10:00 am to
quote:

Trump is selling out to people who would not hesitate to annihilate as many Americans as they could


How is he selling out, specifically?

quote:

NO MORE MAGA if they support the back stabbing


I have a feeling you would feel this way no matter what.
Posted by lake chuck fan
Vinton
Member since Aug 2011
21556 posts
Posted on 6/16/25 at 10:00 am to
quote:


Because wether they've schemed or not to get us into this war. We're likely on our way.


I understand thats your opinion, but that's all it is.
You don't know this.
Posted by BBONDS25
Member since Mar 2008
57225 posts
Posted on 6/16/25 at 10:01 am to
quote:

It's why the FF'd their music festival.


Wow. Some of yall are legit insane.
Posted by GetmorewithLes
UK Basketball Fan
Member since Jan 2011
22311 posts
Posted on 6/16/25 at 10:03 am to
quote:

but crippling Hezbolla, Hamas, and Houtis allowed thier attacking Iran to run smoother. Israel didn't have to worry about Iran's terrorists proxies launching rockets from every other direction.



“Today, we taking care of all the family’s business…”

I looked at this from a 10k ft perspective and realized that Obama and Biden (Dems) really fricked Israel so now that Trump is in office they are going for the kill shot on their major enemies. Even if DJT doesnt join them they are ok in the long run.
Posted by lake chuck fan
Vinton
Member since Aug 2011
21556 posts
Posted on 6/16/25 at 10:12 am to
quote:



“Today, we taking care of all the family’s business…”

I looked at this from a 10k ft perspective and realized that Obama and Biden (Dems) really fricked Israel so now that Trump is in office they are going for the kill shot on their major enemies. Even if DJT doesnt join them they are ok in the long run


Agreed. Also, not everything has to be a conspiracy. Iran has been using its terrorist to attack Israel for years and is due some justice and Israeli intelligence is very capable and probably did actually know Iran was getting closer to being able to have a nuclear weapon.
Both are legit reasons for Israel to attack.

Again, Israel isn't attempting to take Iran, they want to destroy their ability to have nukes and stop killing innocent Israelis.
Posted by NC_Tigah
Make Orwell Fiction Again
Member since Sep 2003
135728 posts
Posted on 6/16/25 at 10:32 am to
quote:

FriendofBaruch


Posted by LSUAngelHere1
Watson
Member since Jan 2018
10137 posts
Posted on 6/16/25 at 10:34 am to
Israel is Hamas. They created and control them. Wake up!
Posted by lake chuck fan
Vinton
Member since Aug 2011
21556 posts
Posted on 6/16/25 at 10:43 am to
quote:

Israel is Hamas. They created and control them. Wake up!


Lol.... ok, whatever you say. Here's some context to your statement. Might help you out.
quote:


Historical Context
Early Support for Islamist Groups (1970s–1980s):
In the late 1970s and 1980s, Israel indirectly supported Islamist movements in Gaza, including precursors to Hamas, as a counterweight to the secular Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO), led by Yasser Arafat. At the time, the PLO was seen as Israel’s primary adversary, engaging in armed resistance and terrorism. Israeli authorities allowed figures like Sheikh Ahmed Yassin, Hamas’s future founder, to operate charitable and religious organizations (e.g., Mujama al-Islamiya) in Gaza, which later became a foundation for Hamas.

Reasoning: Israel viewed the PLO’s nationalist agenda as a greater threat to its control over the occupied territories. Supporting Islamist groups was a strategy to divide Palestinian factions, weakening the PLO’s influence. Declassified documents and accounts from former Israeli officials, like Avner Cohen, confirm Israel permitted these groups to grow, including turning a blind eye to their fundraising and organizational activities.

Evidence: A 2018 statement by former Israeli Defense Minister Avigdor Lieberman acknowledged that Israel’s early tolerance of Hamas’s precursors was a “strategic mistake.” However, this was not direct creation but rather a miscalculation that allowed Hamas to gain a foothold.

Hamas’s Formation (1987):
Hamas emerged during the First Intifada (1987) as a distinct entity, blending Palestinian nationalism with Islamist ideology. While Israel’s policies may have enabled its early growth, Hamas was a grassroots response to occupation, drawing inspiration from the Muslim Brotherhood. There’s no evidence Israel directly founded Hamas or controlled its formation.

Claim’s Origin: Critics argue Israel’s initial support for Islamist groups sowed the seeds for Hamas, framing this as “creation.” This is an oversimplification, as Hamas’s ideology and actions were driven by Palestinian grievances and regional Islamist trends, not Israeli directives.

Why the Claim Persists
Divide-and-Rule Narrative:
Some argue Israel benefits from a divided Palestinian leadership, with Hamas in Gaza and the Palestinian Authority (PA) in the West Bank. By allowing Hamas to maintain power in Gaza (post-2006 election), Israel could justify security measures, avoid negotiations with a unified Palestinian front, and weaken prospects for a two-state solution.

Evidence: Statements from Israeli officials, like Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu in 2019, suggest a strategy of tolerating Hamas to keep Palestinians divided. In a Likud party meeting, Netanyahu reportedly said, “Anyone who wants to thwart the establishment of a Palestinian state has to support bolstering Hamas and transferring money to Hamas.” This fuels perceptions of control, though it’s more about strategic tolerance than direct creation.

Counterpoint: Israel’s military actions against Hamas (e.g., wars in 2008–09, 2012, 2014, 2021, 2023–24) and targeted killings of its leaders contradict the idea of full control. These operations show Israel views Hamas as a threat, not a puppet.

Conspiracy Theories and Propaganda:
Anti-Israel narratives, particularly in some Middle Eastern media or online platforms, amplify the claim that Israel secretly controls Hamas to justify its occupation or discredit Palestinian resistance. These often lack evidence and rely on cherry-picked quotes or events.

Example: Posts on X and some regional outlets have claimed Israel funds Hamas directly, citing Qatari money transfers to Gaza (2018–2023) that Israel permitted. In reality, these funds, monitored by Israel, were for humanitarian aid and salaries to stabilize Gaza, not direct Hamas funding. Misrepresentations of this policy feed the narrative.

Reality Check: Hamas’s funding primarily comes from Iran, Qatar, Turkey, and local taxes in Gaza, not Israel. Iran’s support (e.g., $100 million annually pre-2023) and weapons smuggling are well-documented, undermining claims of Israeli control.

Misinformation and Selective Framing:
The claim thrives on half-truths, like Israel’s early tolerance of Islamist groups or its allowance of Qatari funds. These are framed as “control” without context, ignoring Hamas’s independent actions, such as the October 7, 2023, attack, which killed 1,200 Israelis and triggered a massive war. Such an attack would be counterproductive if Israel truly controlled Hamas.

Web Sources: Some blogs and opinion pieces (e.g., on Mondoweiss or Electronic Intifada) push this narrative, citing Israel’s policies but often omitting Hamas’s agency or external backers like Iran.

Grok's Critical Analysis
Israel’s Role: Israel’s early support for Islamist groups was a tactical error, not a deliberate creation of Hamas. Its later policies, like allowing Qatari funds or avoiding all-out destruction of Hamas, reflect a complex strategy to manage Gaza’s volatility, not control Hamas’s ideology or actions.

Hamas’s Autonomy: Hamas has consistently acted against Israel’s interests, from rocket attacks to the 2023 assault. Its alignment with Iran and rejection of Israel’s existence shows it operates independently, not as an Israeli proxy.

Why It Resonates: The claim appeals to those skeptical of Israel’s motives, especially amid the ongoing occupation and Gaza’s humanitarian crisis. It’s a convenient way to question Palestinian resistance’s legitimacy or paint Israel as orchestrating all outcomes.

Conclusion
The idea that Israel “created and controls” Hamas stems from its early tolerance of Islamist groups and strategic decisions to maintain a divided Palestinian front. However, this is not evidence of creation or control but rather a miscalculation and pragmatic geopolitics. Hamas’s actions, funding, and ideology show it operates independently, often against Israel’s interests. The claim oversimplifies a complex conflict and is often amplified by selective narratives or conspiracy theories. If you want me to dig deeper into any specific source or event, let me know!


This post was edited on 6/16/25 at 10:51 am
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