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Message
re: I am not understanding the uproar over the Pope
Posted on 5/4/25 at 10:38 am to Augustus516
Posted on 5/4/25 at 10:38 am to Augustus516
quote:
We just buried our beloved Pope Francis and the cardinals are about to enter a solemn conclave to elect a new successor of St. Peter," the conference said in a post on X.
Do not mock us,” the post continued.
Francis didn't make it as far as shouting distance to a consultation with Peter at the gates.
0
Posted on 5/4/25 at 11:02 am to Drizzt
quote:
It shows you all you need to know that the Council of Bishops got so upset about an AI generated photo of Trump as pope but the same Council of Bishops doesn’t ever seem to care about child molesting priests. The Vatican is completely corrupt. There are many good Catholics but there are not many good Bishops and fewer good Cardinals.
Hello Drizzt, As you seem to be well researched and a subject matter expert on pedophilia in religious organizations, can you share with us the numbers of bad Catholic bishops and cardinals? Please share the research and how you arrived at your number or percentages?
What denomination are you? Do you honestly feel that pedophilia does not exist in your clergy? How would you know?
Do you want Jesus to come back and start writing in the sand again? Are you going to throw the first stone because "your group is special and without fault"?
Unfortunately pedophilia affects all churches, and effort should always be made to root it out.
Posted on 5/4/25 at 11:03 am to Augustus516
1. The uproar over a joke is being fueled by leftists who loved Pope Francis bc he was a communist.
2. I can tell bc the same people outraged by a simple joke think abortion up until birth is just fine.
3. I’m a Catholic, I just got back from Mass, we read multiple items from scripture, and celebrated the appearance of Jesus to Peter. I don’t really understand whatsoever at all the thinking that non-Catholics are the only Christians. It’s truly mind boggling to me, especially coming from someone spewing that kind of hate at people who actually believe in the same thing.
4. You clearly don’t understand Catholicism which is fine, but assuming that we can’t see it as a good natured joke is a definite sign you don’t understand Catholics either
2. I can tell bc the same people outraged by a simple joke think abortion up until birth is just fine.
3. I’m a Catholic, I just got back from Mass, we read multiple items from scripture, and celebrated the appearance of Jesus to Peter. I don’t really understand whatsoever at all the thinking that non-Catholics are the only Christians. It’s truly mind boggling to me, especially coming from someone spewing that kind of hate at people who actually believe in the same thing.
4. You clearly don’t understand Catholicism which is fine, but assuming that we can’t see it as a good natured joke is a definite sign you don’t understand Catholics either
Posted on 5/4/25 at 11:20 am to lehaus45
You seem highly defensive. It seems well documented that there was a systematic cover up of child sexual abuse in the Catholic Church in the 1980-2000s. Here is a link for you since you seem to question this.
LINK
Are there other religious groups that had sexual abuse occur? Yes.
Did any other religion cover up abuse and move molestors around to different churches to protect them? No.
My main point was that this corrupt behavior was done by the highest leadership in the Catholic Church. The typical Catholic is appalled at this behavior which is why Bishops and Cardinals did this secretly. These same corrupt leaders now seem horribly offended by a meme. Maybe they should be more offended by their own past behavior? That was my only point.
LINK
Are there other religious groups that had sexual abuse occur? Yes.
Did any other religion cover up abuse and move molestors around to different churches to protect them? No.
My main point was that this corrupt behavior was done by the highest leadership in the Catholic Church. The typical Catholic is appalled at this behavior which is why Bishops and Cardinals did this secretly. These same corrupt leaders now seem horribly offended by a meme. Maybe they should be more offended by their own past behavior? That was my only point.
This post was edited on 5/4/25 at 11:22 am
Posted on 5/4/25 at 1:21 pm to lehaus45
Well said
Posted on 5/4/25 at 1:47 pm to Drizzt
Dear Drizzt,
You and I have common ground. We are appalled at pedophilia and its coverup. We have common ground in I believe we share a zero tolerance mentality to the issue.
Where we differ is that you seem to think that only Catholics covered this up. It seems really cool for Protestants to gang up on the Church, while trying to claim some type of moral high ground that pedophilia and its coverups does not apply to them.
Have you ever heard of coverups in Protestant congregations? If so, what were they? How were they handled? If you haven't doesn't it concern you? I, for one, can't recall any major Protestant coverups.
Look at this report from the website of the Stop Abuse Campaign, a voluntary group formed to protect abuse victims.
"The Catholic church seems to have a near monopoly on child sexual abuse in religious settings. But looks can be deceiving, and it appears that child sexual abuse in Protestant churches is more common".
Another excerpt from their website: "It is extremely hard to know the exact rates of child sexual abuse in any institution, especially since it takes survivors, on average, 21 years before talking about their abuse*. But churches, like all other corporate entities that work with the public, have insurance, and only a few insurance providers insure churches. These three companies, in 2007, said they received about 260 reports of sexual abuse per year from Protestant churches and about 228 from Catholic churches."
There are about 1.4 billion Catholics, and about 1 billion Protestants worldwide, so do the math. 1.4 billion Catholics with 228 abuse charges per year versus 1 billion Protestants with 226 abuse reports. Which has the higher rate? Isn't that interesting?
I cannot recall a major story of Protestant abuse in the media. Why is that? Did the Protestants find out about abuses and successfully snuff them out? I don't think so, or they wouldn't have a higher rate of abuses still reported. If they didn't stop pedophilia, and it is not in the media, could it be some instances of successful coverups? If I had to bet, I'd bet heavily on yes. A successful coverup is one you never heard of.
Protestants have no business throwing stones.
You and I have common ground. We are appalled at pedophilia and its coverup. We have common ground in I believe we share a zero tolerance mentality to the issue.
Where we differ is that you seem to think that only Catholics covered this up. It seems really cool for Protestants to gang up on the Church, while trying to claim some type of moral high ground that pedophilia and its coverups does not apply to them.
Have you ever heard of coverups in Protestant congregations? If so, what were they? How were they handled? If you haven't doesn't it concern you? I, for one, can't recall any major Protestant coverups.
Look at this report from the website of the Stop Abuse Campaign, a voluntary group formed to protect abuse victims.
"The Catholic church seems to have a near monopoly on child sexual abuse in religious settings. But looks can be deceiving, and it appears that child sexual abuse in Protestant churches is more common".
Another excerpt from their website: "It is extremely hard to know the exact rates of child sexual abuse in any institution, especially since it takes survivors, on average, 21 years before talking about their abuse*. But churches, like all other corporate entities that work with the public, have insurance, and only a few insurance providers insure churches. These three companies, in 2007, said they received about 260 reports of sexual abuse per year from Protestant churches and about 228 from Catholic churches."
There are about 1.4 billion Catholics, and about 1 billion Protestants worldwide, so do the math. 1.4 billion Catholics with 228 abuse charges per year versus 1 billion Protestants with 226 abuse reports. Which has the higher rate? Isn't that interesting?
I cannot recall a major story of Protestant abuse in the media. Why is that? Did the Protestants find out about abuses and successfully snuff them out? I don't think so, or they wouldn't have a higher rate of abuses still reported. If they didn't stop pedophilia, and it is not in the media, could it be some instances of successful coverups? If I had to bet, I'd bet heavily on yes. A successful coverup is one you never heard of.
Protestants have no business throwing stones.
Posted on 5/4/25 at 3:02 pm to FooManChoo
quote:
On the other hand, Catholics have a wide range of diversity of belief and practice, in regards to liturgy (Latin vs. common tongue) or even things like speaking in tongues (charismatic Catholics). You just hang your hat on the common belief in the Pope as the head of the Church and think that unifying government is the only expression of Christ's one Church.
This is not correct at all. Catholics around the world step as one. The mass I attended this weekend is the same as one in Nigeria, the same as the one in France, the same as the one (name your place). It is identical to what the first Christians did to celebrate Christ. It consisted of two parts: Worship of the Word, and worship of the Eucharist. The worship of the Word of God was one and the same in all Catholic places, all readings exactly the same. Most importantly, the meaning of the scripture was exactly the same in every single one of these churches. The prayers to consecrate the Eucharist were exactly the same in all of the churches and is based on what was done back to the earliest Christians.
Additionally, the sacramental gifts offered by the Holy Spirit are exactly the same around the world. The feast days are exactly the same around the world. Honoring Mary, Mother of God, as truly remarkable and special, is the same around the world. The liturgical seasons are exactly the same, and so on and so forth..............
Latin and speaking tongues is an argument that the Church is widely diverse in its beliefs? Not very strong evidence of a non-congruous Church.
Latin is viewed as a sacred language and has served a worldly Church well for thousands of years. In the past, it was viewed side by side with the common language next to it. Now, as in the US, it is used sparingly In my particular parish, a few short songs are in Latin during the mass a few times a year, in which, the patrons understand the meaning even though not speaking the language. It is not an issue whatsoever.
Speaking in tongues is also not a divisive issue as the Church embraces it. Paraphrasing from the Catechism of the Catholic Church, there are certain sacramental graces, some which have extraordinary character such as miracles or tongues. They are oriented toward sanctifying grace and are intended for the common good of the Church. (para 2003) This is not an issue either. Nice try, though, trying to make the Church look like its beliefs are all over the place. I will give you credit Mr. Foo, you are a good writer and present yourself in a very civil manner, which I appreciate.
You are wrong on so many levels that the Church "hangs it's hat" on the Pope as the head of the Church as being a unifying government .
Posted on 5/4/25 at 3:18 pm to FooManChoo
quote:
. There are still many varying practices and beliefs within Catholicism and that which is agreed upon isn't commonly enforced, which is why you have high-profile Catholics supporting things like abortion, transgenderism, and homosexuality without consequence.
Heretics exist inside and outside the church. How many times did Paul have to exhort the Corinthians for their lack of morality? That was only a few years after Christ ascended into heaven.
The belief system and tenets of the faith of the Church have remained consistent. Wise men (and women) don’t throw out the baby with the bath water.
Posted on 5/4/25 at 4:16 pm to lehaus45
Dear Lehaus,
You are drunk. Go home.
Sincerely,
Drizzt
You are drunk. Go home.
Sincerely,
Drizzt
Posted on 5/5/25 at 7:10 am to lehaus45
I think you are minimizing the differences in the RCC.
First of all, the Latin vs vulgar tongue is a divisive issue. I’ve seen it on this forum where complaints about moving away from the old ways (Latin) are expressed and lamented. The more reverent and elaborate style and form of the Tridentine mass is different from the vernacular mass and seems to be equivalent to a more traditional liturgy found in some Protestant denominations compared to a more contemporary version typically used in others. Even the response to Papal directives are understood and applied in different ways, such as with Francis’ limitations on Latin mass.
Also Protestant denominations have split or formed based on beliefs and practices regarding the continuation of the gifts of the Spirit. Making it seem like it isn’t a big deal that some parishes are more charismatic than others downplays disunity that is called out in Protestant churches.
In addition, parishes might have a different doctrinal emphasis. There are some more liberal teachings like blessings of same-sex marriages in certain places that are not taught or emphasized elsewhere (priests may choose to bless or not bless homosexual couples who ask). Pastoral teachings and practices on issues like social justice, divorce, and abortion can vary, as well, even against the official teachings of the RCC.
And when there are differences in teaching or practice that go against the official teachings of the RCC, there is inconsistency in enforcement. Like I mentioned previously, there are many public Catholics in gross and unrepentant sin, such as those who have abortions and promote abortion publicly, and go without punishment, such as Nancy Pelosi, who is barred from the Eucharist in San Francisco but is allowed to participate in Washington D.C.
The only difference here is that these inconsistencies happen under the name of Catholicism. When they happen outside of Catholicism, Catholics are quick to condemn the lack of unity and therefore use it as an opportunity to promote the unity of Catholicism. However when the disunity within Catholicism is pointed out, it is downplayed or completely disregarded.
First of all, the Latin vs vulgar tongue is a divisive issue. I’ve seen it on this forum where complaints about moving away from the old ways (Latin) are expressed and lamented. The more reverent and elaborate style and form of the Tridentine mass is different from the vernacular mass and seems to be equivalent to a more traditional liturgy found in some Protestant denominations compared to a more contemporary version typically used in others. Even the response to Papal directives are understood and applied in different ways, such as with Francis’ limitations on Latin mass.
Also Protestant denominations have split or formed based on beliefs and practices regarding the continuation of the gifts of the Spirit. Making it seem like it isn’t a big deal that some parishes are more charismatic than others downplays disunity that is called out in Protestant churches.
In addition, parishes might have a different doctrinal emphasis. There are some more liberal teachings like blessings of same-sex marriages in certain places that are not taught or emphasized elsewhere (priests may choose to bless or not bless homosexual couples who ask). Pastoral teachings and practices on issues like social justice, divorce, and abortion can vary, as well, even against the official teachings of the RCC.
And when there are differences in teaching or practice that go against the official teachings of the RCC, there is inconsistency in enforcement. Like I mentioned previously, there are many public Catholics in gross and unrepentant sin, such as those who have abortions and promote abortion publicly, and go without punishment, such as Nancy Pelosi, who is barred from the Eucharist in San Francisco but is allowed to participate in Washington D.C.
The only difference here is that these inconsistencies happen under the name of Catholicism. When they happen outside of Catholicism, Catholics are quick to condemn the lack of unity and therefore use it as an opportunity to promote the unity of Catholicism. However when the disunity within Catholicism is pointed out, it is downplayed or completely disregarded.
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