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re: He is risen
Posted on 4/1/18 at 12:32 pm to nematocyte
Posted on 4/1/18 at 12:32 pm to nematocyte
quote:
No, we are mocking the beliefs, not the believer,
“I just called your kids stupid, not you!”
1
Posted on 4/1/18 at 12:41 pm to OleManDixon
quote:
“I just called your kids stupid, not you!”
Kids are human beings, beliefs are--surprise!--not.
Posted on 4/1/18 at 12:45 pm to nematocyte
quote:
Kids are human beings, beliefs are--surprise!--not.
The point is the hypothetical turd calling your kids stupid is merely calling something dear to you stupid. He isn’t calling you stupid so why would that bother you? If you seriously expect someone to believe someone calling his most sacred beliefs stupid isn’t by extension calling him stupid you’re not engaging in an adult conversation.
Posted on 4/1/18 at 1:01 pm to OleManDixon
quote:
The point is the hypothetical turd calling your kids stupid is merely calling something dear to you stupid. He isn’t calling you stupid so why would that bother you? If you seriously expect someone to believe someone calling his most sacred beliefs stupid isn’t by extension calling him stupid you’re not engaging in an adult conversation.
I'm surprised I have to point this out again, but that is false equivalency--one of those things is real and the other resides solely in your head. It isn't my problem if you place mythological nonsense on the same level as your children.
If I told you I truly believed Tupac ascended to Heaven, pulled out his glock 19, shot Jesus, took over Heaven and now you all need to worship Tupac or suffer in Hell for eternity, you'd think that's egregiously idiotic and hopefully you'd tell me that. Sure, I may interpret that as a personal insult, but that is my problem for believing in stupid shite, not your problem for pointing out how stupid it is.
Posted on 4/1/18 at 1:05 pm to nematocyte
quote:
And there's a perfectly accurate summation of Christianity's free will problem. God loves you, more profoundly than you can ever know, and he's given you the freedom to "choose" to love him back, but if you don't make that choice, you're punished on a scope and scale that would make a thousand, thousand Hitlers reel in disgust.
Many Christians believe Hell is simply separation from God rather than a place of eternal torment. Regardless of the truth of Hell, God doesn’t punish you in the afterlife for not loving Him, he punishes you for your sin. Much the way you punish children for their misbehavior and not whether or not they love you. The only way around this destiny is to ask His forgiveness which would require you first believing He, in the form of Christ, died for your sins. Once you believe this, love for Him will naturally follow. “We love Him because He first loved us.”
Posted on 4/1/18 at 1:14 pm to nematocyte
Well gosh golly. Not only should I not be insulted, I should probably thank you for explaining that my beliefs are stupid. How big of you.
Posted on 4/1/18 at 1:19 pm to OleManDixon
quote:
Many Christians believe Hell is simply separation from God rather than a place of eternal torment. Regardless of the truth of Hell, God doesn’t punish you in the afterlife for not loving Him, he punishes you for your sin. Much the way you punish children for their misbehavior and not whether or not they love you. The only way around this destiny is to ask His forgiveness which would require you first believing He, in the form of Christ, died for your sins. Once you believe this, love for Him will naturally follow. “We love Him because He first loved us.”
That isn't correct. God supposedly punishes those who have never even heard of his particular brand. Those people may have never sinned, but would still be "punished" because they did not ask for forgiveness.
Also, how does "love for him" naturally follow the death of a human that claims to have been God?
Posted on 4/1/18 at 1:38 pm to Argonaut
quote:
That isn't correct. God supposedly punishes those who have never even heard of his particular brand. Those people may have never sinned, but would still be "punished" because they did not ask for forgiveness. Also, how does "love for him" naturally follow the death of a human that claims to have been God?
If those people never sinned they wouldn’t be punished. Again, according to scripture He punishes sin (and not only in the afterlife). As for punishing those who have never heard of Him you get into some doctrinal debate. There are believers on multiple sides of this one. That would be a pretty complicated discussion in this setting. Personally, I think it absurd to believe that He would punish someone who truly had no understanding of Him or how to obtain forgiveness.
As for love naturally flowing that would assume you believe Him to be God and that He did indeed allow Himself to be crucified for the forgiveness of your sins. It would be hard to believe this and not respond with love.
Posted on 4/1/18 at 1:40 pm to OleManDixon
quote:
Many Christians believe Hell is simply separation from God rather than a place of eternal torment.
The evidence is not in their favor though I can see why they would want this to be true and distance themselves from Hell. Increasingly over the decades and centuries, the belief in Hell and Satan are thankfully becoming less prevalent, which by my lights is good for the religion's long-term sustainability.
quote:
Regardless of the truth of Hell, God doesn’t punish you in the afterlife for not loving Him, he punishes you for your sin.
If we accept that the act of being saved, repenting and asking Jesus into your heart is analogous to loving God, or that the action of becoming a true Christian necessitates love of God, he absolutely punishes you for not loving him. There's nothing in the Bible that suggests a mass murderer will not make it Heaven so long as they truly accept the sacrifice of Jesus. This has everything to do with loving him and virtually nothing to do with sin, we are all born as sinners anyway through no fault of our own (ludicrous notion but I'll present it as factual for the sake of my arguments).
This post was edited on 4/1/18 at 1:42 pm
Posted on 4/1/18 at 1:51 pm to nematocyte
I don’t see how that is analogous to loving Him nor do I think being saved necessitates loving Him. I just think it’s unrealistic to think anyone would believe He is the Son of God and died for our sins and not love Him.
As to your reference to original sin I think you’re close to making God in your image by deciding what is and isn’t righteous. Granted, I’m reading into it.
Anyway, have a great holiday! I have to make dad’s lunch.
As to your reference to original sin I think you’re close to making God in your image by deciding what is and isn’t righteous. Granted, I’m reading into it.
Anyway, have a great holiday! I have to make dad’s lunch.
Posted on 4/1/18 at 2:00 pm to OleManDixon
quote:
I don’t see how that is analogous to loving Him nor do I think being saved necessitates loving Him. I just think it’s unrealistic to think anyone would believe He is the Son of God and died for our sins and not love Him.
As to your reference to original sin I think you’re close to making God in your image by deciding what is and isn’t righteous. Granted, I’m reading into it.
Anyway, have a great holiday! I have to make dad’s lunch.
Happy Easter! You were a refreshing person to chat with and I don't think you are a ridiculous person even if I think the mythology is ridiculous. And I can absolutely see why somebody would equate the two but I assure you it's not how I view the majority of Christians.
This post was edited on 4/1/18 at 11:24 pm
Posted on 4/1/18 at 2:03 pm to OleManDixon
quote:
If those people never sinned they wouldn’t be punished. Again, according to scripture He punishes sin (and not only in the afterlife). As for punishing those who have never heard of Him you get into some doctrinal debate. There are believers on multiple sides of this one. That would be a pretty complicated discussion in this setting. Personally, I think it absurd to believe that He would punish someone who truly had no understanding of Him or how to obtain forgiveness.
Of course they'd be punished, according to the belief, the writings, and what you posted. You said the only way to avoid being punished is to "ask His forgiveness which would require you first believing He, in the form of Christ, died for your sins." This means that he would have to punish anyone who didn't ask for forgiveness, regardless of their ignorance of his existence. It's a debate because it's contradictory. Two opposing sides are stuck defending it from a fundamentalist view or from a somewhat more realistic view, but both can't be right. More likely, neither are right.
quote:
As for love naturally flowing that would assume you believe Him to be God and that He did indeed allow Himself to be crucified for the forgiveness of your sins. It would be hard to believe this and not respond with love.
I don't find it that difficult. Admiration might be a better word assuming it were true, but love certainly wouldn't "naturally follow." Even then, I don't know that I could love, or even admire a being who would do such a thing.
Posted on 4/1/18 at 2:20 pm to Argonaut
quote:
I don't find it that difficult. Admiration might be a better word assuming it were true, but love certainly wouldn't "naturally follow." Even then, I don't know that I could love, or even admire a being who would do such a thing.
You may or may not agree but if we assume it's true that God did send himself as Jesus to sacrifice himself to himself to save his creation from himself, I think Christians grossly overinflate the significance of that sacrifice.
ANY decent human being would give themselves up in this fashion if it truly meant that A. The pain was temporary B. They would rise again and C. The ascension after the resurrection would ensure that every person that died from then onward (and possibly from the advent of homo sapien) would have an opportunity to essentially cheat death and live in bliss for eternity alongside their loved ones.
Seems like a no-brainer to me.
Posted on 4/1/18 at 2:31 pm to nematocyte
quote:
Nematocyte
Dude’s been melting about Jesus for several hours now!
This post was edited on 4/1/18 at 2:32 pm
Posted on 4/1/18 at 3:00 pm to JoinTheResistance
Amen
Posted on 4/1/18 at 3:15 pm to JoinTheResistance
Posted on 4/1/18 at 3:22 pm to nematocyte
quote:playing along with these idiots and the voices in their head does nothing but hurt. christianity is one of the most violent, oppressive, and evil forces the wold has ever seen. it needs to be treated that way.
As an atheist that loves holidays generally, Easter has always been one of my favorites.
Happy Easter!
Posted on 4/1/18 at 3:39 pm to Porkchop Express
quote:
For all that worship Christ, I wish you a blessed day.
Hahaha, and for those that don't?
Posted on 4/1/18 at 3:41 pm to nematocyte
I remember my a-hole atheist phase. Then I decided I’d let people live the way they wanted and not worry about it unless it affected my life. Just because I don’t necessarily believe in a deity doesn’t mean I have to be an a-hole to someone for wishing the best to me within their beliefs.
Posted on 4/1/18 at 3:47 pm to JoinTheResistance
Thanks OP.
If Jesus is dead then nothing really matters. And if He's alive, nothing but that matters!
If Jesus is dead then nothing really matters. And if He's alive, nothing but that matters!
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