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Message
re: George Floyd Resisting Arrest For 3 Minutes.
Posted on 6/11/20 at 9:11 pm to davyjones
Posted on 6/11/20 at 9:11 pm to davyjones
quote:exactly. someone needs to prove that had the officers not acted as they did, floyd would not have done something worse. unless instructed otherwise by politicians, leo errs on the side of caution. they are trying to protect the public interest and sometimes that means taking an individual down
The totality of the circumstances must be considered
quote:he used an approved response on an individual who was in an altered state of mind and was resisting arrest for multiple minutes
The ultimate question is whether Chauvin used justifiable force when he had his knee to Floyd's neck
quote:
The officers are going to have to demonstrate somehow or another that the interaction with Floyd had a history of rather violent struggle
have you seen his rap sheet? quote:you and i are watching a different video
This video indicates to me a glaring lack of violent struggle
quote:you apparently don't know what drugs can do to a person's adrenaline
his difficulty even standing up
1
Posted on 6/11/20 at 9:14 pm to Houstiger
quote:why not?
You dont kneel on a guy's neck
quote:then why is minneapolis banning the use of that action? i think you are wrong on this matter.
That is not taught and isnt justified
quote:and yet still high and resisting arrest
He was handcuffed
quote:anecdotal
Friends of mine
quote:i go to the trouble of posting all that info about fentanyl and people just don't even pay attention. what you are saying is medically debatable
He kneeled on his neck and killed him
quote:again, you are wrong on this matter. sometimes police do and they are justified.
You dont kill people even if they are resisting arrest
Posted on 6/11/20 at 9:15 pm to Music_City_Tiger
So, the folk videoing this scene just quit filming and ignored the pre-takedown and neck restraint? Seems a critical part of the scenario is missing.
That said, Chauvin is one of the psychological profiles that should not carry a badge and gun; insecurity manifest as fear, anger and authority/superiority psychoses LE is going to have to weed these folk out forward.
Even so, it's tragic that they have shut down Live PD and Cops; those guys (knowing they were being watched) were the epitome of self control and professionalism. I'm not sure I could cut it. Heard Beck welcome them to The Blaze; wherever they go they will take a large audience. Would be good for OAN to scoop them up.
That said, Chauvin is one of the psychological profiles that should not carry a badge and gun; insecurity manifest as fear, anger and authority/superiority psychoses LE is going to have to weed these folk out forward.
Even so, it's tragic that they have shut down Live PD and Cops; those guys (knowing they were being watched) were the epitome of self control and professionalism. I'm not sure I could cut it. Heard Beck welcome them to The Blaze; wherever they go they will take a large audience. Would be good for OAN to scoop them up.
Posted on 6/11/20 at 9:21 pm to Music_City_Tiger
At the end of the day he’s just another criminal. Instead of blacks turning their backs on him like whites would do they make him an idol. Just proves the difference in each races thought process and why each race is where they are in present time. Whites embrace family and decent morales. Blacks are victims and unfortunately will always be.
Posted on 6/11/20 at 9:25 pm to CamdenTiger
you couldn't have even had time to watch the damn video before you posted.
Posted on 6/11/20 at 9:30 pm to bfniii
quote:
The officers are going to have to demonstrate somehow or another that the interaction with Floyd had a history of rather violent struggle
have you seen his rap sheet?
When I say history I mean within the duration of this specific event.
And point of reference on his rap sheet and the history you're referring to, it's specifically excluded from being introduced as evidence in the trial of this matter or any trial of any matter merely for the purpose of impugning a victim's OR a defendant's character, and there's good reason for that. That reason is because it's not relevant to the single question of whether Chauvin's use of force in keeping the knee to the neck was justifiable force or not.
You won't be seeing any argument allowed in a court of law that goes like "this guy was clearly a crackhead with a rap sheet a mile long" because how is that relevant to whether the knee was justifiable or not?
**And are you really not noticing that Floyd was having a difficult time standing up?
This post was edited on 6/11/20 at 9:32 pm
Posted on 6/11/20 at 9:37 pm to davyjones
quote:
And are you really not noticing that Floyd was having a difficult time standing up?
Are you really not noticing they are having trouble getting him into the car (which was their goal, to take him into custody)? Are you really not noticing he is fighting them, even handcuffed?
Posted on 6/11/20 at 9:41 pm to Music_City_Tiger
Sorry. As much as I hate the PC culture and the socialist movement, that does not justify at all a knee to the neck for 10 minutes.
Posted on 6/11/20 at 9:49 pm to Ace Midnight
No, I'm not noticing those things. Floyd may come to life once or twice for a couple of seconds each time, but everything else is him fumbling around and them trying to deal with a large man who doesn't seem to have good control of his faculties. And Im convinced of this because the majority of the time the cops aren't tussling, but instead dealing with the large incoherent man. Other than perhaps the couple of brief moments referenced above.
Posted on 6/11/20 at 9:59 pm to Music_City_Tiger
Still missing the most important footage...
Posted on 6/11/20 at 10:01 pm to Jjdoc
quote:
Sorry. As much as I hate the PC culture and the socialist movement, that does not justify at all a knee to the neck for 10 minutes.
Ok...
But you don't see the struggle...this is beginning not the end.
Its been held from the public...
No bystanders in this footage
This post was edited on 6/11/20 at 10:02 pm
Posted on 6/11/20 at 10:01 pm to davyjones
So fricking what?
Oooooo he was on drugs so as a result, the cop had a justification to keep his knee on his neck for 9 minutes while the guy was dowm on the ground and cuffed behind his back.
The fricker was not a threat once he was in that position and any sane person damned well knows it.
Floyd was no saint, but he was not a demon or animal that had to be exterminated either
Oooooo he was on drugs so as a result, the cop had a justification to keep his knee on his neck for 9 minutes while the guy was dowm on the ground and cuffed behind his back.
The fricker was not a threat once he was in that position and any sane person damned well knows it.
Floyd was no saint, but he was not a demon or animal that had to be exterminated either
Posted on 6/11/20 at 10:03 pm to Music_City_Tiger
No way they can find these guys guilty of 2nd degree murder.
Posted on 6/11/20 at 10:05 pm to KiwiHead
That wasn't my point. My point was that Floyd's physical movements were more that of a person who's at least somewhat lost control of their faculties, as opposed to a person who's intentionally resisting arrest.
That's ultimately a point in Floyd's column, not the officers.
That's ultimately a point in Floyd's column, not the officers.
Posted on 6/11/20 at 10:06 pm to davyjones
quote:
Floyd may come to life once or twice for a couple of seconds
In the first 9 seconds he tries, three times, to break their grasp. He is clearly, intentionally bracing and dropping straight down. As the one cop tries to open the door, he gets free (to the ground) on the third attempt.
At about the 15, 16 second mark, as they have him at the threshold of the door, he hops in the air a couple of times (presumably to try to break free).
At about the 29 or 30 second mark, he tries to pull away towards the rear of the vehicle and both officers re-engage to secure him.
Now, they took a few seconds to search his pockets and around the 42 or 43 second mark he goes down on 1 knee - I'm ambivalent about that, because that could just be someone out of it, or another attempt to get free (and it isn't nearly as clear with the officers obscuring him from the camera).
He's calm for almost 30 (until around 1:07, 1:08) seconds as they continue to empty his pockets, then it appears he is pushing back/leaning back and they have to reengage.
At about 1:14 he bends at the waist and pushes his arse back. Now, there is a control technique where a police officer pulls sharply up on the cuffs and that may have prompted this - so I'm ambivalent on whether or not this was specifically aggressive on Floyd's part.
Now, when they get the back door open at about 1:18, it is really obscured. Clearly there is a struggle, but more subject to interpretation - is he fighting them? Or is he just so uncoordinated (from the multiple drug intoxication, of which we are all in agreement) that he can't get through the threshold to the seat?
Two or three attempts and he is almost unengaged at about 1:50 and clearly steps back (fully upright). That's not falling or coordination, that's resisting again. Camera work gets squirrelly and they apparently get in partially through the threshold at about 2:11 - 2:12. There is little that can be interpreted from that point on, other than it must not have appeared to the officers that he was in the vehicle sufficient for them to close the door.
So, "come to life once or twice for a couple of second each time" is simply inconsistent with the video I saw.
This post was edited on 6/11/20 at 10:08 pm
Posted on 6/11/20 at 10:10 pm to Ace Midnight
Regardless of our differing perspectives on what we see in that video does it have any relevance as to whether Chauvin was tactically justified in the use of force in the knee for the 8 minutes? I think we can all agree that he clearly wasn't resisting in any way for that duration.
Posted on 6/11/20 at 10:28 pm to davyjones
If Chauvin takes his knee off then Floyd would have tried to get up. He was not compliant, and he was obviously not sober. On the ground where he could be easily controlled is a move taught to law enforcement, prison guards and workers at psych facilities. When a person is a danger to himself, others or the environment, then that person has to be controlled in the least restrictive measure. The cops didn’t shoot him, tase him, or beat him. They took him to the ground to control him.
A jury will decide, once all the evidence is presented, if the cops were responsible for his death.
A jury will decide, once all the evidence is presented, if the cops were responsible for his death.
Posted on 6/11/20 at 10:36 pm to hedgehog
He was face down with his hands cuffed behind his back. And in the process of dying. I've got to think he wasn't raring to get up, or to do anything.
Posted on 6/11/20 at 10:41 pm to davyjones
Think? Cops err on the side of caution. Floyd had been non-compliant the entire time. What makes you “think” he would start to comply?
Posted on 6/11/20 at 10:44 pm to hedgehog
I tend to "think" the same way the prosecutors think.....which led to arrest, charge, then upgraded charge. So it's not just me.
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