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re: Free Trade Makes Us All Richer (Even if Other Countries Don't "Play Fair"

Posted on 7/21/18 at 9:22 pm to
Posted by I B Freeman
Member since Oct 2009
27843 posts
Posted on 7/21/18 at 9:22 pm to
Hong Kong, a tiny country with no natural resources and no land mass to speak of became one of if not the richest per capita population in the world at one time with free trade. Similar story in Singapore.

No tariffs, few taxes was the recipe that made Hong Kong so wealthy.
This post was edited on 7/21/18 at 9:41 pm
Posted by Jack Bauers HnK
Baton Rouge
Member since Jul 2008
6078 posts
Posted on 7/21/18 at 9:31 pm to
Wikipedia tells me Hong Kong is a services dominated economy. Could it be that Hong Kong does not have much of a manufacturing or production economy susceptible to unfair trade practices in other countries?
Posted by I B Freeman
Member since Oct 2009
27843 posts
Posted on 7/21/18 at 9:40 pm to
Nonetheless a very rich country. Do you see now that manufacturing is not as important as is free trade?

There is absolutely no question Hong Kong is rich because of free trade. The British left them alone for 100 years and it was the freest economy in the world and that is what it became.

They obviously did not try to protect the shirt makers with tariffs.
Posted by Jack Bauers HnK
Baton Rouge
Member since Jul 2008
6078 posts
Posted on 7/21/18 at 10:00 pm to
I get your argument, but don’t think it’s as simple as you are making it out to be. In any event, if we have a problem with unfair trade practices in other countries, how do we address those issues without applying economic pressure in one way or another to them? Asking them nicely hasn’t had much effect. Having superior products or more efficient and lower cost manufacturing should give us an advantage, but their tariffs just cancel those advantages out. What do you suggest we do about their tariffs?
Posted by I B Freeman
Member since Oct 2009
27843 posts
Posted on 7/21/18 at 11:22 pm to
quote:

if we have a problem with unfair trade practices in other countries


There are practices we believe to be unfair and we have practices the believe to be unfair.

I promise you that if we simply unilaterally did away with all our tariffs and subsidies our economy would grow much more that it is today. Oh farmers and steel makers would scream but the overall wealth of the USA would go up just like it did in Hong Kong. I am sure there were textile manufacturers in Hong Kong in the fifties that wanted protection and did not get it.
Posted by Foch
Member since Feb 2015
804 posts
Posted on 7/22/18 at 3:24 am to
I don’t disagree with parts of your argument, but would like to know where you would assign the burden of defense spending which in many places guarantees the freedom of movement required to facilitate trade (we could argue where)?

Historical example: do nations who benefit from freedom of navigation (EU, Japan, China) owe the US for keeping the Persian gulf/strait of malacca/Suez free from rogue state interference? We had the Japanese and Euros contribute significantly to pay for Gulf War 1, is there any requirement for nations to compensate the US for its role in ensuring the capability for trade? If we agree that all benefit from trade, should we own the vast majority of the costs?

I don’t enjoy the idea of tariff wars, but I also don’t know how we can truly have “free trade” without American sea power facilitating free navigation. Since there is a bill for for the provision of trade guaranteeing security, who pays it, and in what way? Does making others help pay for it then violate the principle of free trade?
This post was edited on 7/22/18 at 3:26 am
Posted by Foch
Member since Feb 2015
804 posts
Posted on 7/22/18 at 3:31 am to
quote:

Hong Kong


Also benefited from geography, proximity to a rising economy with cheap labor and resources, and was ahead of the vast majority of cities/states in its region to develop conditions required for a modern economy.

It also benefited greatly from favorable terms drawn up after the opium wars and enjoyed British defense (excepting WW2) to guarantee its status. Free trade principles may have played a large role in its success, but they are far from being the sole ingredient.
Posted by NC_Tigah
Make Orwell Fiction Again
Member since Sep 2003
138902 posts
Posted on 7/22/18 at 5:10 am to
quote:

I promise you that if we simply unilaterally did away with all our tariffs and subsidies our economy would grow much more that it is today..
Just like the alcoholic exec who's always buying everyone a round at the bar. He does it because his credit card limits allow it. He feels so much richer for it. Everyone calls him their friend, much more so than before he bought their drinks. He thinks it's great doing so well.

5yrs later he's a homeless vagabond, and dying of cirrhosis on the street. Folks he bought countless rounds for before he lost everything, walk by and shake their heads in disgust. They don't give him a drink. They don't give him spare change. They don't even give him the time of day.

This post was edited on 7/22/18 at 5:12 am
Posted by ElroyJetSon
Baton Rouge
Member since Jul 2011
4018 posts
Posted on 7/22/18 at 8:00 am to
quote:

Pure free trade is just like communism. It only works as a theory


Hahah holy shite
Posted by ElroyJetSon
Baton Rouge
Member since Jul 2011
4018 posts
Posted on 7/22/18 at 8:05 am to
quote:

We will certainly have less employment if tariffs go on as Trump wants. Only the truly naive believe tariffs create jobs---they destroy jobs

Anyone who argues against this is a moron
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