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Posted on 1/26/21 at 8:49 pm to Nguyener
This is actually a pretty good rebuttal finger painting illustration that some in this thread are actually pushing to explain complex legal situations.
Equity essentially means an application of fairness on a case-by-case basis according to the facts of a specific case. Not intended to be applied to society writ large.
If we imagine that short man became short because he he got drunk and drove his car off a cliff and had to have his legs amputated. Why make the tall man have a lesser vantage of the game to make him equal with short drunk-driving legless man?
Or what if middle height guy is middle height because he overweight from overeating and is now confined to a wheelchair. In the same scenario, tallman is a jogger who saved his money for better seats- why should he have the same shitty seats as legless drunk guy? Bonus question: why should his virtuous actions not be rewarded with better seats?
Punish those who have done no wrong to bring them down to the lowest denominator. That is the communist way.
These are all strawmen arguments that are creepily familiar from the Obama admin (e.g. you didn't build that sounds familiar).
And designed to create the 'classist' system that the lefties supposedly rail against to keep the swamp and corporate cronyism alive.
Posted on 1/26/21 at 8:52 pm to hubreb
Welcome to the Inaugural season of Mental Gymnastics. A season lasts four years in this league. A black Dr. Seuss hologram will lead the opening ceremonies.
Posted on 1/26/21 at 9:05 pm to Microtiger
quote:
It is the ultimate form of racism. “Equality didn’t work, some folks that we like just can’t compete, so we will rig equity. We are good at rigging things and no one dare stop us.” “Racial Equity” is racism by blatant admission.
You're willingly twisting it.
Posted on 1/26/21 at 9:08 pm to WaWaWeeWa
quote:
In shear numbers there are more white people living in poverty than black people.
It's not about shear numbers, it's about percentage.
Let's think of an example that works, imagine a bunch of rich elite liberals in Baton Rouge, and a few good upstanding country farm boys in the little settlement of Ethel. Let's say 90% of the disgusting Baton Rouge liberals can afford to get their kids a Bible, and only 25% of the poor farmers in Ethel can do the same. Baton Rouge's population is 224,149, so 22,414 kids go Godless. Ethel's population is 3,584, so 2,688 kids go Godless.
A generation later, and all the kids in Ethel are little Satanists! The 10% of kids in Baton Rouge who didn't have Bibles still had friends who did, and they steered them back to the light. The kids in Ethel weren't as lucky, because more than half of them had no such holy scripture.
The local parish steps in, and they can only afford 10,000 Bibles, so they send 8,930 (89.3%) Bibles to Baton Rouge, and 1,070 (10.7%) of the Bibles to Ethel. After all, it's by the numbers!
But now, an Ethel family says. Those damn liberals in Baton Rouge! Why did they get all the Bibles? We have it worse here! They ought to send us even more Bibles, because our kids are the ones deep in the Stank of Satan!
It's more than equity in the moment, it's the fact that most black people's grandparents or parents lived in radically different times than white people's did, and that has absolutely ruined their current place by no fault of their own. I mean, damn, my mom was the first white student at the school in my hometown. That is NOT that long ago!
Disagreeing with this stuff is just the same old "I got mine, forget everyone else" mentality, the same mentality of people who only care about things when it affects them personally. Oh and about the metaphor I used, if you're not a Bible person, replace the Bibles with guns and the kids turning to Satan with...I guess the kids turning into vegans.
Posted on 1/26/21 at 9:10 pm to Tiguar
quote:
Sunsets are already free. I don’t get it.
They are Democrat’s. That means they were too lazy to walk to a spot to easily see a giant orb in the sky setting beyond the horizon. Instead it is much easier to demand that a fence that they don’t own (on property that doesn’t belong to them) be taken down.
You know - “Democratic“ Communism.
Posted on 1/26/21 at 9:12 pm to jimmy the leg
quote:
They are Democrat’s. That means they were too lazy to walk to a spot to easily see a giant orb in the sky setting beyond the horizon. Instead it is much easier to demand that a fence that they don’t own (on property that doesn’t belong to them) be taken down.
You know - “Democratic“ Communism.
"I don't have the mental and emotional fortitude to engage with the point of the metaphor, so I'm going to tear it down for arbitrary reasons. LOL, LIBERALS OWNED!!"
Damn, you won this so hard. I changed my opinion completely, and I'm going to show your post to my mom and we will cry together at our new understanding of the world.
Posted on 1/26/21 at 9:18 pm to Microtiger
quote:
Let's think of an example that works, imagine a bunch of rich elite liberals in Baton Rouge, and a few good upstanding country farm boys in the little settlement of Ethel. Let's say 90% of the disgusting Baton Rouge liberals can afford to get their kids a Bible, and only 25% of the poor farmers in Ethel can do the same. Baton Rouge's population is 224,149, so 22,414 kids go Godless. Ethel's population is 3,584, so 2,688 kids go Godless.
A generation later, and all the kids in Ethel are little Satanists! The 10% of kids in Baton Rouge who didn't have Bibles still had friends who did, and they steered them back to the light. The kids in Ethel weren't as lucky, because more than half of them had no such holy scripture.
The local parish steps in, and they can only afford 10,000 Bibles, so they send 8,930 (89.3%) Bibles to Baton Rouge, and 1,070 (10.7%) of the Bibles to Ethel. After all, it's by the numbers!
But now, an Ethel family says. Those damn liberals in Baton Rouge! Why did they get all the Bibles? We have it worse here! They ought to send us even more Bibles, because our kids are the ones deep in the Stank of Satan!
It's more than equity in the moment, it's the fact that most black people's grandparents or parents lived in radically different times than white people's did, and that has absolutely ruined their current place by no fault of their own. I mean, damn, my mom was the first white student at the school in my hometown. That is NOT that long ago!
Disagreeing with this stuff is just the same old "I got mine, forget everyone else" mentality, the same mentality of people who only care about things when it affects them personally. Oh and about the metaphor I used, if you're not a Bible person, replace the Bibles with guns and the kids turning to Satan with...I guess the kids turning into vegans.
You're making the assumption that the Bible is the only way out of being a Satanist. Which doesn't stack up, as does the original picture show.
In any case, Let's flip the script on your example. Let's say that the Liberals in Baton Rouge have Bibles, but only 1% make the kids read their Bibles. However, in Ethel, 100% of Parents make their kids read it. Which place is better off in that case?
The problem is that you, and all equity arguments, automatically equate resources with equity. And that's why this becomes a class struggle, and that's why this always turns into taking from someone, because it's simply a resource argument.
When looking at the picture, it's probably better to show equality as giving each person the same tools and materials to make a box, or a structure to stand on. In that case, think about each person, and what they would have to do to "See the action" on the field. That's equality, that should be America. We should all get the same tools with limitless circumstances. We shouldn't get the same setup or resource, that's impossible.
Yes, the kid on the end can make a box and see the action, or he can make a ladder and see above everyone else, but some people have to figure out how to make a better structure. That takes work, it takes a supportive culture, etc. But that doesn't mean you can just keep taking the resources from someone else, that's unfair.
This post was edited on 1/26/21 at 9:20 pm
Posted on 1/26/21 at 9:24 pm to Microtiger
quote:
Disagreeing with this stuff is just the same old "I got mine, forget everyone else" mentality, the same mentality of people who only care about things when it affects them personally
If you feel so inclined, donate your money into the shithole, it really is not necessary to extract money from someone else to give to your pseudo-charity of choice.
Posted on 1/26/21 at 9:26 pm to Freauxzen
quote:
You're making the assumption that the Bible is the only way out of being a Satanist. Which doesn't stack up, as does the original picture show.
In any case, Let's flip the script on your example. Let's say that the Liberals in Baton Rouge have Bibles, but only 1% make the kids read their Bibles. However, in Ethel, 100% of Parents make their kids read it. Which place is better off in that case?
The problem is that you, and all equity arguments, automatically equate resources with equity. And that's why this becomes a class struggle, and that's why this always turns into taking from someone, because it's simply a resource argument.
When looking at the picture, it's probably better to show equality as giving each person the same tools and materials to make a box, or a structure to stand on. In that case, think about each person, and what they would have to do to "See the action" on the field. That's equality, that should be America. We should all get the same tools with limitless circumstances. We shouldn't get the same setup or resource, that's impossible.
Yes, the kid on the end can make a box and see the action, or he can make a ladder and see above everyone else, but some people have to figure out how to make a better structure. That takes work, it takes a supportive culture, etc. But that doesn't mean you can just keep taking the resources from someone else, that's unfair.
Your idea of also adding a percentage of parents that actually make their kids read the Bibles is a good point, but it muddies the metaphor again. To then make it all work, though, the disadvantaged community needs both of the factors going against them. But let's forget the Bible thing altogether, because I like where you went with the "building your own box" thing.
I totally agree! But assume in the metaphor that the kid on the end isn't a kid, but a midget. It still works for the kid, but you'll just say the kid will grow out of it, so let's say it's a midget. He's shorter than everyone else, for a reason he can't do anything about; THAT is the whole point. The midget will have to build something that the others don't have to build, and all the time and effort the midget puts into building that box the others have put into building other things that help them out even more. There's only so many hours in a day, and the midget will always be playing catch up with the building, even if they all have the same tools and materials.
By the way - genuine thanks for engaging legitimately, and you made really good points.
This post was edited on 1/26/21 at 9:28 pm
Posted on 1/26/21 at 9:27 pm to hubreb
quote:
Communism
This provides me a sensible chuckle because even under communism, human nature takes over.
Posted on 1/26/21 at 9:30 pm to TigerintheNO
Junior could have move over a few feet to his right and peeped through the hole in the fence. That's thinking.
Posted on 1/26/21 at 9:34 pm to Microtiger
Yea I get how percentages work. You are missing my point.
No. It’s your bleeding heart, short sighted beliefs that will lead to much worse problems down the road. Let’s use the welfare system as an example. You would argue “who wouldn’t want to give poor people money!”, but you would fail to see that while that is helpful in the short term it has destroyed the black family in the long term and lead to worse problems.
You will do the same thing here.
Let me ask you. How do we know when we have equity? And what do we do if black people one day have more equity than white people? Do we reverse the policies and once again discriminate against black people?
I bet you can’t answer these questions. And if you can’t that should be a huge wake up call.
quote:
Disagreeing with this stuff is just the same old "I got mine, forget everyone else" mentality, the same mentality of people who only care about things when it affects them personally.
No. It’s your bleeding heart, short sighted beliefs that will lead to much worse problems down the road. Let’s use the welfare system as an example. You would argue “who wouldn’t want to give poor people money!”, but you would fail to see that while that is helpful in the short term it has destroyed the black family in the long term and lead to worse problems.
You will do the same thing here.
Let me ask you. How do we know when we have equity? And what do we do if black people one day have more equity than white people? Do we reverse the policies and once again discriminate against black people?
I bet you can’t answer these questions. And if you can’t that should be a huge wake up call.
This post was edited on 1/26/21 at 9:35 pm
Posted on 1/26/21 at 9:35 pm to Microtiger
quote:
He's shorter than everyone else, for a reason he can't do anything about; THAT is the whole point. The midget will have to build something that the others don't have to build,
Fair, but that's humanity. We aren't all the same intelligence, we aren't all the same height, we don't all have the same physical prowess.
That midget has to realize his position, and he knows how high the fence, he might have to be more crafty, but that's the game. Understand where you are and find the shortest path to get where you need to be. And help those around you.
Unfortunately, we have cultures internally in this country who aren't supportive of that, and we now have a political class that wants to import more midgets (i feel like using the midget metaphor is bad
) quote:
and all the time and effort the midget puts into building that box the others have put into building other things that help them out even more.
So maybe the midget gets a couple of extra boards and some more nails. That midget also has a relative or two. He might have a relative who is tall, maybe he can lend him a board or two.
Now we are getting specific.
But as a culture, we ARE trying to give him a whole new box. I don't think anyone disagrees with minor safety nets, but it's always tilting, constantly, to taking a lot more from others.
The more people try to take, the more people are going to dig in.
quote:
There's only so many hours in a day, and the midget will always be playing catch up with the building, even if they all have the same tools and materials.
All of us play catch-up in a lot of ways. The only people who don't play catch-up are the insanely rich. Not the $500k/year folks, I'm talking the multi-million/year folks. Those are the only people who legitimately probably do not suffer or struggle in some form.
quote:
By the way - genuine thanks for engaging legitimately, and you made really good points.
Posted on 1/26/21 at 9:38 pm to Microtiger
quote:
If there is any lesson in the history of ideas, it is that good intentions tell you nothing about the actual consequences. But intellectuals who generate ideas don’t have to pay the consequences.
-Thomas Sowell
You can’t see that you are legitimizing government discrimination based on race? That will one day lead to a very bad outcome for someone, and I would be willing to bet it will be some group that no one will expect.
If you believe in this so much get out there and help someone build equity. Why does the government have to mandate it?
Posted on 1/26/21 at 9:38 pm to Microtiger
That one is more dumb because they are on a fricking hill. How about the guy on the left use his brain, futher his position on the planet and walk 5 steps up the hill where he could see over the fence.
Answer: because he is too lazy to change his own outcome and instead is relying on someone else to move the damn fence for him.
Answer: because he is too lazy to change his own outcome and instead is relying on someone else to move the damn fence for him.
This post was edited on 1/26/21 at 9:39 pm
Posted on 1/26/21 at 9:56 pm to Microtiger
quote:
But assume in the metaphor that the kid on the end isn't a kid, but a midget. It still works for the kid, but you'll just say the kid will grow out of it, so let's say it's a midget. He's shorter than everyone else, for a reason he can't do anything about; THAT is the whole point. The midget will have to build something that the others don't have to build, and all the time and effort the midget puts into building that box the others have put into building other things that help them out even more. There's only so many hours in a day, and the midget will always be playing catch up with the building, even if they all have the same tools and materials.
So how does this relate to professional athletes? I mean, no matter how much work and effort I put into basketball, I will never beat Lebron James in actual competition. How do you propose that we have equity in that “arena?” Or does Lebron get a “pass?”
Should I get paid the same amount as him?
Do I get to knee-cap him Jef Gillooly style?
What about his teammates? How will they level out the playing field? Do they make the same amount as me?
Posted on 1/26/21 at 10:01 pm to WaWaWeeWa
quote:
You can’t see that you are legitimizing government discrimination based on race?
Equity...by any means necessary.
Posted on 1/26/21 at 10:04 pm to Freauxzen
I found it funny that Susan Rice started the press conference talking about her grandparents immigrating from Jamaica. Her being a cabinet member and a serious contender for vp is equality.
Every black person not having what every white peron has is their version of lack of equity.
My two kids were basically given the same opportunity.. One is a petroleum engineer and the other works for the state. Do I expect them to to earn the same financial equity.
I just hope they are happy and the country doesn’t go down the road we’re on.
Obama tried to help black equity with the home loan fiasco. Giving loans to people that they weren’t financially qualified for ended up hurting those they were trying to help.
Most immigrants came to this country as poor as blacks are today. They have been more driven and valued education more than blacks in general. The success of African and Caribbean immigrants following the American dream shows it is less skin color and more education, hard work and luck.
Equality is all we can strive for. God gave us different abilities and drive. Let people have equal opportunity to find their own level.
Every black person not having what every white peron has is their version of lack of equity.
My two kids were basically given the same opportunity.. One is a petroleum engineer and the other works for the state. Do I expect them to to earn the same financial equity.
I just hope they are happy and the country doesn’t go down the road we’re on.
Obama tried to help black equity with the home loan fiasco. Giving loans to people that they weren’t financially qualified for ended up hurting those they were trying to help.
Most immigrants came to this country as poor as blacks are today. They have been more driven and valued education more than blacks in general. The success of African and Caribbean immigrants following the American dream shows it is less skin color and more education, hard work and luck.
Equality is all we can strive for. God gave us different abilities and drive. Let people have equal opportunity to find their own level.
Posted on 1/26/21 at 10:05 pm to TigerintheNO
Here's the problem with that image: the family doesn't have the right to watch a baseball game they didn't pay for.
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