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Started By
Message
Either we have thousands of cases untested, OR the virus has a high mortality rate
Posted on 3/14/20 at 8:14 am
Posted on 3/14/20 at 8:14 am
You can’t have both.
You can’t simultaneously try to scare people that we haven’t tested enough, and are only seeing the tip of the iceberg,
AND
Point to mortality rates (currently at 2.12% in the USA) and scream and panic.
It’s one or the other. If we have thousands more cases, the mortality rate drops to flu levels. If the higher mortality rates are real, then we have been testing effectively.
You have to choose.
You can’t simultaneously try to scare people that we haven’t tested enough, and are only seeing the tip of the iceberg,
AND
Point to mortality rates (currently at 2.12% in the USA) and scream and panic.
It’s one or the other. If we have thousands more cases, the mortality rate drops to flu levels. If the higher mortality rates are real, then we have been testing effectively.
You have to choose.
Posted on 3/14/20 at 8:15 am to cokebottleag
Get that logic out of here.
I have toilet paper to buy and stocks to sell sell sell.
I have toilet paper to buy and stocks to sell sell sell.
This post was edited on 3/14/20 at 8:17 am
Posted on 3/14/20 at 8:17 am to cokebottleag
While the math is as basic as it gets (if the denominator is artificially low, then your rate is artificially high), Americans are too stupid and panic-prone to grasp it.
Posted on 3/14/20 at 8:18 am to cokebottleag
The mathematicians at RAND agree wholeheartedly...
For those who believe in math, statistics and shite...
Bias and fear are addressed
https://www.rand.org/blog/2020/03/estimates-of-covid-19s-fatality-rate-might-change-and.html
The media is peddling fear and a fundamental misunderstanding of math/realty
This is not without precedent (fake news)
For those who believe in math, statistics and shite...
Bias and fear are addressed
https://www.rand.org/blog/2020/03/estimates-of-covid-19s-fatality-rate-might-change-and.html
quote:
COMMENTARY(The RAND Blog)
Estimates of COVID-19's Fatality Rate Might Change. And Then Change Again.
CDC staff support the COVID-19 (novel coronavirus) response in the the CDC Emergency Operations Center in Atlanta, Georgia, March 10, 2020Photo by James Gathany/CDC/Reuters by Raffaele Vardavas, Courtney A. Gidengil, Sarah A. Nowak March 11, 2020
quote:
With infections of the new coronavirus confirmed now in 114 countries or regions, people around the world are following the daily tally of COVID-19 cases, wondering exactly how lethal this new disease is. The truth is, it's hard to know. An important measure of the deadliness of a disease outbreak is the case-fatality rate (CFR). The CFR is the ratio of the number of deaths attributed to a disease to the total number of confirmed cases. For example, a disease with two deaths out of 100 confirmed cases has a CFR of 2 percent. Media outlets often imply that the ratio of current deaths to all current cases is the case-fatality rate, but it's not. The case-fatality rate can only be calculated based on finalized cases in an outbreak—that is, once all patients have either recovered or died. But early in an outbreak, even good estimates of the CFR can be too high—or too low.
The media is peddling fear and a fundamental misunderstanding of math/realty
This is not without precedent (fake news)
quote:
The primary reason why the CFR may overestimate the probability of death is that the number of confirmed diagnosed cases is likely an undercount of the true number of infections. This problem is known as ascertainment bias, which is to say that the medical system is much more likely to confront and diagnose severe cases and deaths than mild ones. Again suppose there were two deaths out of 100 resolved cases (people recovered or died)—but that an additional 50 mild cases have gone undetected. That means that while the CFR is 2 percent, the percent of all cases who have died is 2/150 = 1.3 percent. Early in an outbreak, even good estimates of the case-fatality rate can be too high—or too low. Share on Twitter This is why even as some reports from China say the death rate is 3.4 percent for known cases, medical experts such as Tom Frieden, former director of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, say that number is “certainly an overestimate” and expect a global rate below 1 percent.
quote:
An initial study from China analyzing COVID-19 cases reported as of Feb. 11 found an estimated case-fatality rate of 2.3 percent. Just a month later, as of March 10, in mainland China there were 3,136 deaths and 80,757 COVID-19 cases, giving an estimated case-fatality rate of 3.8 percent. A variety of factors could have caused the upward change in fatality-rate estimates, but it is likely partially attributable to the deaths of individuals whose cases were previously unresolved. The case-fatality rate was zero in the United States until the first U.S. death was reported on Feb. 29. As of March 11, it was 36 deaths of 1,291 cases, or an estimated CFR of 2.8 percent. But only eight cases are resolved. Still, there's reason to suspect that these rough early CFR calculations are, in fact, overestimating the probability that an individual who contracts COVID-19 will die from it. Reports suggest significant ascertainment bias for COVID-19: Approximately 80 percent of confirmed cases are mild. There may be many cases with very mild symptoms that have gone completely undetected. Regardless of what the final CFR ends up being, the public needs to understand how and why these figures evolve and change over the course of an outbreak. That will enable more transparent reporting on the part of media and policymakers, and ultimately help to avoid erosion of trust.
Posted on 3/14/20 at 8:20 am to cokebottleag
I assume it's far more prevalent than what we know. I've asked for days, where are the bodies? If this has a 2% mortality and it's more prevalent than we know by several factors, the deaths should follow.
Posted on 3/14/20 at 8:20 am to cokebottleag
We can cancel shopping or playing outside next though....so even if neither are true it doesnt matter to the ninnies
Posted on 3/14/20 at 8:22 am to rsbd
We have thousands of cases untested. We've tested less than 100 in Louisiana. There are likely thousands of cases in Louisiana. We don't know. Hence the caution in closing schools and limiting gatherings.
Posted on 3/14/20 at 8:25 am to Tigerfan1274
quote:
We don't know
But let’s panic anyways
Posted on 3/14/20 at 8:30 am to rsbd
quote:
But let’s panic anyways
Always assume the worst possible outcome and spend money to avoid that.
much easier for simpler folk to understand rather than that "look at the range of outcomes and probabilities and figure out a reasonable response" malarkey
If it centralizes more power to the government all the better!
Just wait until the media mouthpieces butcher the discussion of test accuracy. That has not even occurred to them yet. The assumption is all we have to do is test and the tests will always be correct.
Posted on 3/14/20 at 8:32 am to TideCPA
quote:
Americans are too stupid and panic-prone to grasp it.
It really frightened me many years ago when I realized just how easily played that we are. They have figured out how to outsmart the bulk of the population. The minority are the outliers, wise enough to see it or lacking the cogbitive ability to have any response at all.
Posted on 3/14/20 at 8:34 am to Tigerfan1274
quote:
We have thousands of cases untested. We've tested less than 100 in Louisiana. There are likely thousands of cases in Louisiana. We don't know. Hence the caution in closing schools and limiting gatherings
Mild infections can be hidden behind lack of testing, morbid cases cannot because you get treatment or die.
The morbidity rate is currently .5 percent and will collapse once the denominator grows.
Posted on 3/14/20 at 8:41 am to Turbeauxdog
quote:Tests or not, mild cases are not, in large numbers, going to take the time to present themselves to a physician. They'll just deal with the cough for a couple weeks. Hopefully they recognize their need to segregate themselves from others at the least.
Mild infections can be hidden behind lack of testing
Posted on 3/14/20 at 8:44 am to Jake88
My wifes school had a bunch of kids over Christmas break come back from various places overseas and they ended up with a ton of kids put with upper p
Respiratory crap. She got it as well. They even closed the school an extra day at Mardi Gras break to disinfect.
Who knows what that was or what someone brought back...
Respiratory crap. She got it as well. They even closed the school an extra day at Mardi Gras break to disinfect.
Who knows what that was or what someone brought back...
Posted on 3/14/20 at 8:49 am to cokebottleag
Your premise is wrong for the same reason your logic is correct.
We aren’t testing many cases. We couldn’t get tests for the severely ill unless they fricked a chinaman until very recently. Severe cases/deaths were missed, too.
We aren’t testing many cases. We couldn’t get tests for the severely ill unless they fricked a chinaman until very recently. Severe cases/deaths were missed, too.
Posted on 3/14/20 at 8:52 am to Tiguar
quote:
Severe cases/deaths were missed, too.
I didn’t know you could die in America without someone noticing.
Posted on 3/14/20 at 8:54 am to cokebottleag
(no message)
This post was edited on 3/14/20 at 11:02 am
Posted on 3/14/20 at 8:57 am to Tiguar
The Ohio State Department of Health said that they believe there are 100,000 unreported cases in Ohio, alone. At the time, there was about 15 confirmed cases.
The 100,000 number seems high for Ohio, to me, but let's say that was for the entire nation, not just Ohio. If that is the case, then the mortality rate (deaths/cases) becomes about 0.05%, or very, very low.
The 100,000 number seems high for Ohio, to me, but let's say that was for the entire nation, not just Ohio. If that is the case, then the mortality rate (deaths/cases) becomes about 0.05%, or very, very low.
Posted on 3/14/20 at 8:57 am to Turbeauxdog
My guess is it’s possible that as much as 5% of Americans have, or have had the virus already. 15 million or so, which would make the mortality rate around .0000033%.
Posted on 3/14/20 at 8:58 am to Jax-Tiger
quote:
becomes about 0.05%, or very, very low.
Sooooo...wanna buy some TP, I know some folks that might be tight in their house due to a sudden spend
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