re: Edward Snowden is a hero, anyone who says otherwise is a blubbering fool

I have the utmost respect for them. When my mom remarried when I was 4 I met a man on my step-dads side of the family that had worked in surveillance and espionage for decades since the 60's. He died around 1999 or so. This man was the utmost gentleman and lover of liberty I have ever seen.

He told us about his stays in Iran, Saudia Arabia, Egypt, south america, you name it he has been there. He had plaques on his wall written by the president himself (bill clinton LOLOL) thanking him for his service.

When he passed away I was given some of his books. He had one particular book I will never forget and I attempted to read it, but it was so redacted that I couldn't understand all of it. It exposed all the dirt in the CIA from the overthrowing of governments in south america to iran, and the building of Saudia Arabia. Usual names like Kissinger were in it.

I asked my Aunt if he secretly held any guilt, and she told me that there were things he would not talk about and he carried a heavy heart.

These men do shite we could NEVER comprehend and may never have to do for the protection of our nation. I'll defend em to the end.

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. If I blame anyone for any CD, it's the IC and the gov't, not Snowden.

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Yup, mayhaps the gov shouldn't be doing effed up shizz in the 1st place.

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And blanket condemnation? Would you agree that's just as ignorant?

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Yep. If I didn't convey that in my first reply then let me do it now:

There are good people in the IC who deserve credit for their hard work.

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Nah, I get that. Just didn't remember your overall and general thought on that.

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I'm all about a Snowden pardon, as are most of my former co-workers. Not all, but most. I generally distrust the IC, some agencies more than others, after having witnessed many years of frickery and failures. I do like some specific people that I've worked with, and believe they have high integrity. Almost all the middle and upper tier careerists turned my stomach.

That's about as specific as I can get

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It's how every organization is, but the IC has some of that shite on steroids, which is exactly what every I know that's been involved with them feels as well.

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It's not uniquely villainous. You're combining a good many people who are generally more gifted than most in government work with a lot of compartmented, caveated information that makes them feel special. You're going to get some ego in there--even when they're wrong. But to pretend as though they're somehow less moral or responsible than Sentrius and the rest of the clowns who post here is just ridiculous. What would they do as seniors or even mid-level guys living in a world of gray, conflicting information and potentially life and death decisions?

I suppose I get that internet jackasses aren't the standard, but the IC can't get away with near the shite it used to--and rightfully so. They're still charged with a daunting, incomprehensible duty in which success, as a matter of course, should almost always go unnoticed. And failure will always make front page news.

People who seek convenient villains are almost always lazy moralists (not you, but the aforementioned).

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But to pretend as though they're somehow less moral or responsible than Sentrius and the rest of the clowns who post here is just ridiculous. What would they do as seniors or even mid-level guys living in a world of gray, conflicting information and potentially life and death decisions?

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But that's the thing, I don't trust anyone with that much authority. Be it Sentrius, or even myself. It's the structure of the institution that I am wary of, and the perverse incentives that it creates.

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I suppose I get that internet jackasses aren't the standard, but the IC can't get away with near the shite it used to--and rightfully so. They're still charged with a daunting, incomprehensible duty in which success, as a matter of course, should almost always go unnoticed. And failure will always make front page news.

People who seek convenient villains are almost always lazy moralists (not you, but the aforementioned).

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I agree. it's my opinion that this is the fault of the Congress that gave this responsibility, and the authorities required to fulfill them, to the executive and by extension the IC.

Maybe, but it's also quite possible we share some that are similar.

(no message)

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traitor who outed far far far far worse traitors who possessed far more destructive power. I'll take that anytime. Every American should

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That's great, but that isn't the only thing he did.

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That's great,

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Yep

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but that isn't the only thing he did.

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Outweighed by the former. By a lot.