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Started By
Message
re: Dershowitz says it was a clear attempt at a coup
Posted on 2/15/19 at 10:04 am to AggieHank86
Posted on 2/15/19 at 10:04 am to AggieHank86
quote:
Again, “examining the options” is not a crime. If he HAD improperly organized a majority of the Cabinet and assisted the VP in seizing power, THEN he would have arguably committed a crime.
Did he make a single affirmative step involving someone else towards Committing the crime? Like say a meeting to discuss it??? Or any action whatsoever that could be considered an affirmative step? (Like, you know, an investigation). Do you know why that is important?
This post was edited on 2/15/19 at 10:05 am
1
Posted on 2/15/19 at 10:33 am to BBONDS25
quote:Of course, but all of that ASSUMES that the process of invoking the 25th Amendment would have BEEN a crime, regardless of the identity of the persons involved.
Did he make a single affirmative step involving someone else towards Committing the crime? Like say a meeting to discuss it??? Or any action whatsoever that could be considered an affirmative step? (Like, you know, an investigation). Do you know why that is important?
People who are considering taking an action ROUTINELY start planning that action and simultaneously examining the legality of that action.
Can I organize a business in my wife's name to utilize HUB status, but still retain effective control? Can I organize a company in Louisiana, but maintain its primary office in Texas? etc.
This entire discussion is Trump fans wanting to vent.
Posted on 2/15/19 at 10:35 am to MeatCleaverWeaver
They really need to be executed in public....perhaps on the mall with PPV options.
Posted on 2/15/19 at 10:39 am to AggieHank86
quote:
Of course, but all of that ASSUMES that the process of invoking the 25th Amendment would have BEEN a crime, regardless of the identity of the persons involved.
Discussion of invoking the 25th amendment to a newly elected president, that has not been shot, had a stroke etc. that is keeping him from doing his job, is clearly a coup.
quote:
People who are considering taking an action ROUTINELY start planning that action and simultaneously examining the legality of that action.
That's what McCabe stated. they were clearly plotting a coup to invoke 25th amendment. (insurance policy)
I'm sure if the shoe was on the other foot, you would feel the same and call this as "Hillary" fans wanting to vent.
If you thinks all of this is just run of the mill, "nothing to see here", you are burying your head in the sand.
Posted on 2/15/19 at 10:42 am to AggieHank86
quote:
By analogy, do you think a person commits a crime by thinking “I could make a lot of money by spying for China,” if they never ACTUALLY spy for China?
Trump thought about building a tower in Russia. Not only is it not a crime to build a tower in Russia but thinking about doing it also isn't a crime. Doesn't stop yall's dumbasses from skyscreaming.
Posted on 2/15/19 at 10:51 am to AggieHank86
quote:Just because the coup failed does not mean that it was never attempted. Criminal conspiracy does not require action, much less a successful action. The 25th amendment has to do with the mental/physical incapacitation of a President. It has nothing to do with Russian collusion or FBI directors being fired. McCabe admitted that he sought to unlawfully remove the President of the United States.
People who are considering taking an action ROUTINELY start planning that action and simultaneously examining the legality of that action.
This post was edited on 2/15/19 at 10:54 am
Posted on 2/15/19 at 11:00 am to beaverfever
quote:
Just because the coup failed does not mean that it was never attempted. Criminal conspiracy does not require action, much less a successful action
This is the biggest party the left/media is missing.
Look at the SC investigation that has proven no evidence of collusion and was started to cover tracks of collusion.
Just bc McCabe and others failed at the coup, doesn't negate they conspired/colluded at Treason against the POTUS.
What would the ramifications had been if RNC/Trump admitted to collusion with Russia if they had lost the election? Is it omitted bc they lost???
What would the ramifications had been if GOP supporting Directors had conspired/colluded to start a coup and invoke the 25th amendment against Obama or Hillary?
The GOP and life long directors at the FBI/DOJ etc would be Destroyed,indicted and behind bars
How these people (Brennan, Clapper, McCabe, Comey, Rod etc.) are not behind bars is mind boggling.
I don't care what party affiliation you are, if you cant call a spade a spade on this, you are just as big of Treasonous POS they are. If you truly believe in Trump being impeached over Trump/Russia collusion, you should be equally upset about this.
This post was edited on 2/15/19 at 11:04 am
Posted on 2/15/19 at 11:03 am to bstew3006
quote:Yes, I would.
I'm sure if the shoe was on the other foot, you would feel the same and call this as "Hillary" fans wanting to vent
AGAIN, if this "plan" was actually undertaken ... and for political reasons rather than incapacity ... it would be a problem. I would be complaining as loudly as anyone.
If it was simply "This guy is fricking nuts and may be literally insane. What is the scope of the 25th, what are the procedures, and what would be the chances of removing him?" ... conducting that analysis is NOT a crime.
Posted on 2/15/19 at 11:05 am to Hurricane Mike
quote:Please feel free to post a link to ANY thread in which I have posted any negative comment about the proposed Trump tower in Russia. I will wait.quote:Trump thought about building a tower in Russia. Not only is it not a crime to build a tower in Russia but thinking about doing it also isn't a crime. Doesn't stop yall's dumbasses from skyscreaming
By analogy, do you think a person commits a crime by thinking “I could make a lot of money by spying for China,” if they never ACTUALLY spy for China?
HINT: I have posted REPEATEDLY and from the beginning that I see no evidence of improper collusion between the Trump campaign and the Russian government.
I just LOVE the way Trump sycophants just ASSUME that anyone who is not slobbering on Trump's phallus ... simply MUST be solidly in the Dem camp. Simpletons.
This post was edited on 2/15/19 at 11:07 am
Posted on 2/15/19 at 11:05 am to AggieHank86
quote:
This guy is fricking nuts and may be literally insane.
Yeah, no serious person believes that.
Posted on 2/15/19 at 11:06 am to AggieHank86
They were counting heads in the cabinet. That is NOT
quote:
What is the scope of the 25th, what are the procedures, and what would be the chances of removing him?"
Posted on 2/15/19 at 11:06 am to AggieHank86
quote:Like triggering the insurance policy on a piss dossier?
AGAIN, if this "plan" was actually undertaken ... and for political reasons rather than incapacity ... it would be a problem. I would be complaining as loudly as anyone.
Posted on 2/15/19 at 11:10 am to beaverfever
quote:Agreed.
The 25th amendment has to do with the mental/physical incapacitation of a President. It has nothing to do with Russian collusion or FBI directors being fired. McCabe admitted that he sought to unlawfully remove the President of the United States.
And that is entirely consistent with everything that I have written.
Sorry, but mere contemplation of a potential misuse of the 25th Amendment is not a crime. If you feel otherwise, please point to the specific statute.
Please don't just cite "treason," because we both know that it is not applicable.
Posted on 2/15/19 at 11:11 am to AggieHank86
quote:
Yes, I would
No, you wouldn't and you're proving it.
quote:
AGAIN, if this "plan" was actually undertaken ... and for political reasons rather than incapacity ... it would be a problem. I would be complaining as loudly as anyone.
Have you even kept up with the entire process, facts and actions that were taken? He admitted to actively trying to unlawfully remove him from office. But that's not a crime?
This was not "water cooler" talk.
They were actively undermining the POTUS to invoke the 25th.
Just bc they failed doesn't mean, Oh it was simply "this guy is f'n nuts talk" and we were just seeing what procedures would need to be taken. Sorry HOSS, that dog won't hunt.
If Barr stays true to his word, they will be investigated and prosecuted.
This post was edited on 2/15/19 at 11:14 am
Posted on 2/15/19 at 11:11 am to AggieHank86
quote:
Fourth, it would NOT be “treason” for federal officials to examine the options, if they observe irrational (and arguably psychotic) behavior in a POTUS ...
Define “irrational” or “psychotic”.
To my knowledge, none of the principals involved are mental health professionals.
You are right about one thing, however. The word “treason” is thrown around too much. It’s not treason. The proper word for undermining a duly elected government would be “sedition”.
This post was edited on 2/15/19 at 11:12 am
Posted on 2/15/19 at 11:15 am to bstew3006
quote:And herein lies the rub.
Just bc McCabe and others failed at the coup, doesn't negate they conspired/colluded at Treason against the POTUS.
One cannot commit "treason" against an individual. This sort of "personal loyalty" thinking is third-world, banana-republic stuff.
quote:Well, if they ACTUALLY violated campaign finance laws or something similar, they would be in trouble. If the campaign had simply asked "Can Russia help us?" and decided not to pursue the matter, it would be a non-event.
What would the ramifications had been if RNC/Trump admitted to collusion with Russia if they had lost the election? Is it omitted bc they lost???
quote:AGAIN, if they actually attempted to improperly-invoke the 25th, they would (and should) be in trouble. If they simply analyzed the possibility, it would be a non-event.
What would the ramifications had been if GOP supporting Directors had conspired/colluded to start a coup and invoke the 25th amendment against Obama or Hillary?
Posted on 2/15/19 at 11:15 am to Godfather1
quote:
sedition”.
There it is!
I couldn't remember the word but had General Munro from The last of Mohicans in my head
Posted on 2/15/19 at 11:17 am to Homesick Tiger
Sure looks that way
Posted on 2/15/19 at 11:17 am to AggieHank86
quote:
AGAIN, if this "plan" was actually undertaken ... and for political reasons rather than incapacity ... it would be a problem. I would be complaining as loudly as anyone.
Somehow, I doubt that. You’d be looking for ways to justify “incapacity”.
Posted on 2/15/19 at 11:20 am to Bunyan
quote:"Counting heads in the Cabinet" is the very DEFINITION of "what would be the chances of removing him?" ... at least for 24 days. For the chances of permanent removal, they would need to be counting heads in the Senate and House.
They were counting heads in the cabinet. That is NOTquote:
What is the scope of the 25th, what are the procedures, and what would be the chances of removing him?"
This post was edited on 2/15/19 at 11:21 am
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