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re: Christians who somehow thought it wasn’t Christianlike to vote for Trump
Posted on 9/10/25 at 9:17 pm to FooManChoo
Posted on 9/10/25 at 9:17 pm to FooManChoo
quote:
man-made doctrines of the Church. I'm upholding God's word as preeminent.
The Holy Bible is clear that Jesus Christ Himself is the Word of God. Jesus Christ is pre-eminent, and He bequeathed His Church to us.
1
Posted on 9/10/25 at 9:19 pm to Champagne
quote:Not sure where you got the idea that I'm a pastor. I've never claimed to be a pastor. It's not my job, and I wouldn't lose my income if I changed churches.
But Foo is a PASTOR of a congregation. If Foo converts to EOC, he LOSES HIS JOB, he loses his income, he loses his friends and he may even lose his wife and children. Foo absolutely cannot under any circumstances acknowledge that you are right. To do so would cause the collapse of his professional career and income.
That aside, I can't acknowledge he is right because he isn't right. The only thing stopping me from switching teams is the truth.
Posted on 9/10/25 at 9:20 pm to TheDeerHunter
quote:I am not a pastor. I don't prepare sermons. I don't draw an income from my church. I'm just a servant.
Wow. Is this true Foo, are you a pastor?
Champagne, as a former military guy yourself, I know you’ve heard the phrase, “New facts, new tactics”.
Posted on 9/10/25 at 9:28 pm to Champagne
quote:He's the incarnate word, but the Scriptures are also called the word of God. If you'd rather me just use "Scriptures" to avoid confusion, I'm happy to do that.
God's Word is Jesus Christ. "In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word was God."
The Word of God is Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ Ascended to Heaven.
quote:He preserved the Scriptures for us. There are not other apostolic teachings that were infallibly preserved and left for us. If He did, you would be able to point to that "cannon" of oral traditions that were left behind, but we don't have that.
He left us with His Church and His practices and teachings that he handed down to the Apostles.
quote:Jesus gave teachers and Apostles to teach what Christ had taught, and those teachings that were necessary for the Church are recorded in what we call "Scripture". That was the lasting legacy and deposit of the faith.
For many years, this was the Ultimate Authority - The Church. The Church taught the Gospel. Christ ordered His Church to teach the Gospel. He said to Peter, "Feed my sheep" and that means teach the Gospel. Did Christ hand Peter a Bible when He told Peter "Feed my sheep"? No. Christ left nothing in writing. He left His Church.
quote:Peter erred, didn't he? He was corrected by Paul. And yet you claim that the Church continued even with the Apostles being fallible, by themselves.
WHY would God leave us with an error-prone Church when He said that the Gates of Hell would never prevail against His Church? You say that he did in fact do that. EOC/RCC folks say your logic is faulty and He didn't do that.
The gates of Hell won't prevail against the Church, but that doesn't mean the Church is perfect. Only Christ is perfect.
quote:Why didn't they assemble more books of "Scripture" that were comprised of the sayings and traditions of the Apostles?
The Church wanted to preserve what Christ handed down to us so over the course of many years, the Church assembled the New Testament.
quote:You misunderstand. I didn't say you can't trust the Church. I said you have to verify the Church according to the only infallible rule in the Bible. Christ guides His Church by His Spirit so that Hell won't prevail against her, however that doesn't mean the Church is infallible. It means Christ is. We have the Bible as that ultimate and perfect standard to guide the Church.
Once we got the New Testament, you say that The Church was suddenly fallible, not to be trusted and to now trust in the Bible Alone and not The Church. Where in the Bible does it say to reject the Church as Christian Authority and replace it with the New Testament, which The Church assembled and wrote under the influence of the Holy Spirit?
quote:That's fine if you disagree, but there's a reason systematic theologies address these topics in a systematic way. It makes logical sense.
Your logic doesn't hold together under scrutiny. Not in my opinion
Posted on 9/10/25 at 9:28 pm to TheDeerHunter
quote:
When I went to Airborne School, I didn’t care what the Black Hats opinions on physics or Scriptures were, I wanted TRUTH.
Some things we may never know with absolute certainty. For example, I believe a person can be “saved” yet still have the opportunity to fall away, as Scripture calls us to persevere. Others, possibly Foo, might argue that in such a case, the person was never truly saved, based on passages emphasizing the security of believers. In a sense, it’s partly a matter of semantics, reflecting a nuanced difference in perspective. The basic stuff is universally accepted and agreed upon by all except in fringe demonstrations that most would argue aren’t even Christian.
Posted on 9/10/25 at 9:29 pm to FooManChoo
quote:
The only thing stopping me from switching teams is the truth.
Posted on 9/10/25 at 9:29 pm to Knartfocker
quote:The Bible is the revelation from God. The message is from God, and therefore it is perfect and trustworthy. It is also perfectly authoritative. If God audibly spoke to you right now, the words would be authoritative because they are breathed out by God. The Bible is that authoritative "breath".
You're saying a creature has equal authority to God?
quote:Yes, there is an individual component to that testimony.
To the individual?
Posted on 9/10/25 at 9:30 pm to TheDeerHunter
quote:I pray that God would keep me from such apostasy.
Over half of the Priests throughout all jurisdictions of the Eastern Orthodox churches in America are former Protestant pastors. They made the choice to walk the narrow path.
Lord willing, Foo will too someday.
Posted on 9/10/25 at 9:31 pm to Champagne
quote:Again, I'm not a pastor and my livelihood is not tied to my faith.
No, I'm not saying that at all. I apologize for the misunderstanding. Foo is sincere and I never for an instant would characterize him as a grifter.
All I'm saying is that a Pastor has a lot to lose if he converts. It's not like a layperson with a lay job converting.
Posted on 9/10/25 at 9:32 pm to cssamerican
quote:
For example, I believe a person can be “saved” yet still have the opportunity to fall away, as Scripture calls us to persevere
Amen. As our Lord instructed us, “But he that shall endure to the end, the same shall be saved” There is no “once saved, always saved”. We have to struggle daily in Christ and fight the good fight to the end.
Posted on 9/10/25 at 9:33 pm to FooManChoo
quote:
I pray that God would keep me from such apostasy
23 pages later and you finally get me to laugh. Lord have mercy on us all.
This post was edited on 9/10/25 at 9:34 pm
Posted on 9/10/25 at 9:33 pm to Champagne
quote:Again, while Jesus is the incarnate word of God, the "word of God" also refers to God's revelation. Do a quick search for "word of God" in an online Bible and see for yourself if it always refers to Jesus as the second person of the Trinity.
The Holy Bible is clear that Jesus Christ Himself is the Word of God. Jesus Christ is pre-eminent, and He bequeathed His Church to us.
Posted on 9/10/25 at 9:35 pm to FooManChoo
quote:
The Bible is the revelation from God. The message is from God, and therefore it is perfect and trustworthy. It is also perfectly authoritative. If God audibly spoke to you right now, the words would be authoritative because they are breathed out by God. The Bible is that authoritative "breath".
I must be misunderstanding something. So when the Bible mentions the Word of God, in your view, what is it talking about?
quote:
Yes, there is an individual component to that testimony.
Just so I'm clear, you're saying the knowledge of the Bible comes from an individual's confirmation from the Holy Spirit?
Posted on 9/10/25 at 9:39 pm to FooManChoo
Champagne says:
You refute him with:
Dude, you don’t even read what others write before responding. You repeated what he said in refutation.
I’m thankful - seriously - you’re not a pastor as you’re an amateur in keeping up with your responses.
quote:
The Holy Bible is clear that Jesus Christ Himself is the Word of God
You refute him with:
quote:
Do a quick search for "word of God" in an online Bible and see for yourself if it always refers to Jesus as the second person of the Trinity
Dude, you don’t even read what others write before responding. You repeated what he said in refutation.
I’m thankful - seriously - you’re not a pastor as you’re an amateur in keeping up with your responses.
This post was edited on 9/10/25 at 9:40 pm
Posted on 9/10/25 at 9:39 pm to Knartfocker
quote:In John 1:1, 15, Jesus is the Word of God.
I must be misunderstanding something. So when the Bible mentions the Word of God, in your view, what is it talking about?
In Matthew 15:6, God's revelation as codified in the Scriptures is the word of God.
I'm speaking of God's word, as in His revelation. Jesus is the incarnation of God's revelation, as He speaks for God as God.
quote:The understanding and acceptance of God's word ultimately comes from and is confirmed by the Holy Spirit. God's truth is spiritually discerned (1 Cor. 2:14)
Just so I'm clear, you're saying the knowledge of the Bible comes from an individual's confirmation from the Holy Spirit?
Posted on 9/10/25 at 9:42 pm to TheDeerHunter
quote:I think you're misunderstanding again.
Dude, you don’t even read what others write before responding. He repeated what he said in refutation.
I'll track for you:
I said, "I'm upholding God's word as preeminent."
He responded with, "The Holy Bible is clear that Jesus Christ Himself is the Word of God. Jesus Christ is pre-eminent, and He bequeathed His Church to us."
To which I responded, "while Jesus is the incarnate word of God, the "word of God" also refers to God's revelation"
My point was that while Jesus is the incarnated word of God, the "word of God" speaks to God's revelation more broadly, rather than merely the person of Jesus Christ.
Posted on 9/10/25 at 9:43 pm to FooManChoo
quote:
God's truth is spiritually discerned
So who determines if the writings of a man are in keeping with “God’s truth”?
Do you believe the Didache is true? The writings of St. Ignatius? St. John Chrysostom? St. Gregory the Theologian? John Calvin?
Posted on 9/10/25 at 9:44 pm to TheDeerHunter
quote:Each Christian has the right and responsibility to be Bereans and compare writings of man with the Scriptures to determine if what is proclaimed is correct.
So who determines if the writings of a man are in keeping with “God’s truth”?
quote:They are true in as far as they conform to the Bible.
Do you believe the Didache is true? The writings of St. Ignatius? St. John Chrysostom? St. Gregory the Theologian? John Calvin?
This post was edited on 9/10/25 at 9:47 pm
Posted on 9/10/25 at 9:48 pm to FooManChoo
quote:
Each Christian has the right and responsibility to be Bereans and compare writings of man with the Scriptures to determine if the spiritual truth proclaimed is correct.
You’re consistent on this, so for that, I give you credit.
This leads to what we Orthodox call “every man a pope” just interpreting Scriptures as you see fit.
Posted on 9/10/25 at 10:22 pm to FooManChoo
quote:
In John 1:1, 15, Jesus is the Word of God.
In Matthew 15:6, God's revelation as codified in the Scriptures is the word of God.
I'm speaking of God's word, as in His revelation. Jesus is the incarnation of God's revelation, as He speaks for God as God.
Foo, your belief is almost textbook Arianism. You claim here that Jesus is the incarnation of God's revelation and that God's revelation is Scripture (because it's His authoritative word) - you equate the 2. Earlier you admitted that God's word is created when I asked if you believed a creature had the same authority as God (you said scripture was created). The word of God (or any energy of God for that matter) cannot be created. This was demonstrated in the first Ecumenical Council. This is not, nor has it ever been a Christian position.
quote:
The understanding and acceptance of God's word ultimately comes from and is confirmed by the Holy Spirit. God's truth is spiritually discerned
You already said it's the individual that does the discernment. Your belief, according to your own words and Westminster confession is that the inward working of the Holy Spirit on the individual is what gives "full persuasion and assurance of the infallible truth". In other words, fullness of truth comes from personal illumination. This is a core tenet of gnosticism, not Christianity. It logically follows under this belief system, that yes, the individual is in fact the ultimate authority because scripture cannot actually interpret itself. Interpretation requires a mind. Scripture is an inanimate object.
Foo, you're obviously well-versed in scripture. I'm sure you do a lot of good work in your church, are a good neighbor, and an overall decent guy. But goodness, you have to understand that when pressed, your beliefs actually line up more with the heretics of the early Church than the Church itself. Lord have mercy.
Take off the blinders and come home!
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