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Started By
Message
Challenge your thinking for a minute
Posted on 9/27/17 at 11:22 am
Posted on 9/27/17 at 11:22 am
I'm a small government conservative/libertarian type and generally distrustful of those in authority and with too much power.
I would wager most on this board feel the same way and are distrustful of government and too much power - it's a pretty foundational American principle.
I am appreciative of the job and role that police play in our society - it's a hard job and one that I would never want. Why do small government types (myself included) give government such a hard time for being inept, inefficient, unresponsive, etc. but have little criticism for the most powerful form of government (that with a gun and the power to arrest). Everyone knows or has met the cop who has no business being one - it's prevalent enough to be a stereotype.
I think a lot of people reflexively oppose what their perceived opposites favor. Case in point - the NFL and the left reflexively oppose what President Trump says and thus end up in the role of supporting protesting the national anthem at their games. A position they never took en masse until President Trump opposed it. A lot of people who would normally favor opposition to government find themselves reflexively supporting government (police forces) because BLM and those that they don't normally identify with are opposing it.
My problem with the NFL players protesting isn't so much what they are protesting about (wanting the government/police force to treat them fairly) but how they are going about doing it. Imagine the NFL player stopping at Starbucks and being forced to wait while the cashier conducts their individual protest for each customer. Protest like a normal person and organize a march or a boycott and maintain non violence and they'd get a lot more support...
That is all.
I would wager most on this board feel the same way and are distrustful of government and too much power - it's a pretty foundational American principle.
I am appreciative of the job and role that police play in our society - it's a hard job and one that I would never want. Why do small government types (myself included) give government such a hard time for being inept, inefficient, unresponsive, etc. but have little criticism for the most powerful form of government (that with a gun and the power to arrest). Everyone knows or has met the cop who has no business being one - it's prevalent enough to be a stereotype.
I think a lot of people reflexively oppose what their perceived opposites favor. Case in point - the NFL and the left reflexively oppose what President Trump says and thus end up in the role of supporting protesting the national anthem at their games. A position they never took en masse until President Trump opposed it. A lot of people who would normally favor opposition to government find themselves reflexively supporting government (police forces) because BLM and those that they don't normally identify with are opposing it.
My problem with the NFL players protesting isn't so much what they are protesting about (wanting the government/police force to treat them fairly) but how they are going about doing it. Imagine the NFL player stopping at Starbucks and being forced to wait while the cashier conducts their individual protest for each customer. Protest like a normal person and organize a march or a boycott and maintain non violence and they'd get a lot more support...
That is all.
9
Posted on 9/27/17 at 11:28 am to RonLaFlamme
I think a lot of people realize that the police are often times heavy handed and go outside of what they're supposed to do.
The fallacy is that this ONLY affects black people.
The fallacy is that this ONLY affects black people.
Posted on 9/27/17 at 11:31 am to TheXman
quote:
I think a lot of people realize that the police are often times heavy handed and go outside of what they're supposed to do
Posted on 9/27/17 at 11:32 am to TheXman
Just from a branding standpoint - if they wouldn't make it specifically racial, and reject all attempts to make it universal- there would be a much better chance of acceptance.
Remember the uproar when some people tried to say All Lives Matter.
Thanks for the serious response - I expected nothing but downvotes.
Remember the uproar when some people tried to say All Lives Matter.
Thanks for the serious response - I expected nothing but downvotes.
Posted on 9/27/17 at 11:34 am to 225bred
Do you disagree that there is a stereotype of overzealous cops? You know the saying about stereotypes right? There is a reason they exist.
Posted on 9/27/17 at 11:34 am to RonLaFlamme
Peaceful protests should be conducted using approved methods during approved times only!
-small government conservative/libertarian type who is generally distrustful of those who could specify approved methods/settings
-small government conservative/libertarian type who is generally distrustful of those who could specify approved methods/settings
Posted on 9/27/17 at 11:35 am to 225bred
Uses Trump meme to prove he's a bootlicker, thereby making OPs point
Posted on 9/27/17 at 11:36 am to 225bred
I know a few cops. Some are assholes, some are not. Are we talking about cops that kill people or cops that are just assholes?
I heard a good statement the other day.. Cops sometimes have to escalate a situation to deescalate the situation.
Sort of like, if a guy is in a parking lot or wherever wielding a knife and threatening people, the cops aren't going to show a similar amount of force as the guy. They will go in with guns to end the situation.
But yeah, I'm sure there is a larger percentage of cops that are assholes than people think.
I heard a good statement the other day.. Cops sometimes have to escalate a situation to deescalate the situation.
Sort of like, if a guy is in a parking lot or wherever wielding a knife and threatening people, the cops aren't going to show a similar amount of force as the guy. They will go in with guns to end the situation.
But yeah, I'm sure there is a larger percentage of cops that are assholes than people think.
Posted on 9/27/17 at 11:36 am to RonLaFlamme
quote:
You know the saying about stereotypes right? There is a reason they exist.
Agreed.
quote:
Do you disagree that there is a stereotype of overzealous cops?
Yes, there is a stereotype.
but it is built on hysteria, it is not real.
Posted on 9/27/17 at 11:37 am to 90proofprofessional
I don't think it's a stretch to expect protests to be peaceful and don't see that in conflict with small government/libertarianism at all. One of the concepts at play is that if we do no harm to anyone else, then less government is required.
Posted on 9/27/17 at 11:37 am to RonLaFlamme
Here's why
Because the complaints are 99% made up bullshite, and most people know it.
Even as a military cop, I had so many complaints against me that it was ridicilous, and they were all nuisance complaints.
99% of people who encounter a LEO encounter them because they broke the god damned law and got caught, now obviously they aren't happy about being caught and instead of just saying "yeah okay you got me I broke the law" it's " I didn't do nuffin" as they start taking swings at the guy who's only doing his job.
Most people see this, these motherfrickers wouldn't be dead if they didn't break the law, and then fight the cop who was trying to arrest them for doing so.
Of course, there are instances where a warrant was served on the wrong house, etc etc and yes there are even some a-hole cops who are out looking to be racist and or dicks. BUt the overwhelming number of LEOs simply want to do their jobs and get home safely to their own families
And a majority of Americans understand this.
Because the complaints are 99% made up bullshite, and most people know it.
Even as a military cop, I had so many complaints against me that it was ridicilous, and they were all nuisance complaints.
99% of people who encounter a LEO encounter them because they broke the god damned law and got caught, now obviously they aren't happy about being caught and instead of just saying "yeah okay you got me I broke the law" it's " I didn't do nuffin" as they start taking swings at the guy who's only doing his job.
Most people see this, these motherfrickers wouldn't be dead if they didn't break the law, and then fight the cop who was trying to arrest them for doing so.
Of course, there are instances where a warrant was served on the wrong house, etc etc and yes there are even some a-hole cops who are out looking to be racist and or dicks. BUt the overwhelming number of LEOs simply want to do their jobs and get home safely to their own families
And a majority of Americans understand this.
Posted on 9/27/17 at 11:40 am to JuiceTerry
quote:
Uses Trump meme to prove he's a bootlicker, thereby making OPs point
Triggered
Posted on 9/27/17 at 11:43 am to HeyHeyHogsAllTheWay
I agree that the majority of cops are good. I also believe that there is a sizable enough minority that are bad to have undermined the credibility of the whole. That is a shame, but it is also true.
When the consequences of the bad ones are harassment, unlawful detention, unjustified arrest, up to and including death - it's a big deal. They have a lot of power and can do some serious damage if that power is abused.
When the consequences of the bad ones are harassment, unlawful detention, unjustified arrest, up to and including death - it's a big deal. They have a lot of power and can do some serious damage if that power is abused.
Posted on 9/27/17 at 11:46 am to i am dan
quote:
Some are a-holes, some are not. Are we talking about cops that kill people or cops that are just a-holes?
I'm talking about both, but obviously with emphasis on the former. Abuse of power doesn't have to mean you kill somebody.
Posted on 9/27/17 at 11:47 am to RonLaFlamme
quote:
Imagine the NFL player stopping at Starbucks and being forced to wait while the cashier conducts their individual protest for each customer.
Well, that's completely unlike what they were doing.
Posted on 9/27/17 at 11:51 am to RonLaFlamme
BLM was built on the "Hands up don't shoot" LIE from the Michael Brown case. Mike brown was a criminal who never put his hands up and said don't shoot. That was made up by the political left so they could extract MONEY and political capital. Trayvon Martin another often cited by BLM was guilty as well.
So the entire protest of BLM on police shooting black men is based on lies.
If they want to be taken seriously they need some better martyrs.
So the entire protest of BLM on police shooting black men is based on lies.
If they want to be taken seriously they need some better martyrs.
Posted on 9/27/17 at 11:57 am to 225bred
quote:
Yes, there is a stereotype. but it is built on hysteria, it is not real.
The stereotype is on my local news every morning when I get up at 5am.
Posted on 9/27/17 at 12:01 pm to Walkthedawg
quote:
The stereotype is on my local news every morning when I get up at 5am.
Well then it must be true then.
Posted on 9/27/17 at 12:06 pm to HeyHeyHogsAllTheWay
quote:
Even as a military cop,
I have a friend who was an MP. She told me she denied people their rights constantly to do her job, and not just military personnel.
She was part of a joint drug task force the in the DC area that went after civilians too. Multiple times she told me about unlawful actions she committed because the only thing that matter was "the safety of the officers".
That's bullshite. The safety of the people matter far more than the officer. That's what you signed up for, especially military police.
This post was edited on 9/27/17 at 12:07 pm
Posted on 9/27/17 at 12:08 pm to RonLaFlamme
Good post and I'm gonna be honest with you.
I've known about 20 as friends, neighbors, relatives, gym associates, the golf course and sr. league baseball. I've been stopped by at least 10 others in my life. All 30 were nice, professional, qualified people.
I'm sure there are some that have no business being cops. But I've never met one and you asserted 'everyone knows...' I don't know any.
quote:
Everyone knows or has met the cop who has no business being one - it's prevalent enough to be a stereotype.
I've known about 20 as friends, neighbors, relatives, gym associates, the golf course and sr. league baseball. I've been stopped by at least 10 others in my life. All 30 were nice, professional, qualified people.
I'm sure there are some that have no business being cops. But I've never met one and you asserted 'everyone knows...' I don't know any.
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