re: Catholics in America have fallen

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although God doesn't change.

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That's what I'm getting at. Just seems silly at some point.

I honestly think your brand doesn't matter as long as you follow Jesus. Probably makes me a bad Catholic, but I think we're all golden.

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Freauxzen,

Either the church has and holds to doctrine or it doesn't.

Some areas of sin are harder to suss out. However, a homosexual marriage is pretty easy to see. It is not a hidden sin nor an arguable situation.

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The contraception rate is like 99% for sexually active females, including those who are married, not that hard to suss out. Most Catholics are 100% doing it, and if we do something like prevent this person from entering the church, we should in turn start to actually police Contraception usage meaningfully, and then reject Women and Men engaged in contraception and trying to engage in sacraments. This includes every form of contraception, and yes pulling out is one. Sorry gents.

But this entire situation is exactly why the Church shouldn't. The Church would become authoritarian moral police, which I actually think they do a pretty good job of riding the line now.

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An abortion can be repented... many single, sinful, even repeated acts can be repented. Constant homosexual union is not one of those acts. It is willfully living in sin.

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I'd disagree here. There is no difference in repeatable mortal sins from contraception to homosexual relations. They are not in a union, not in the church's perspective.


Look, I don't think you get it: I agree 100% that this person shouldn't be taking communion and doing confirmation if they aren't in a state of grace.

But I also don't think the Church can police these things, there is no end to that, and unfortunately, it creates way too many contradictions that it would just not work.

I'm happy to be wrong on this, I'm not a priest or a theologian and I don't think you are either, but it just feels like Church as police is the wrong place to go. Especially with the amount of hypocrisy that we know is already embedded in being human.

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I’m a Catholic convert. After 9 months of weekly classes on doctrine, Church history, etc, there is a confirmation service in which the priest asks these questions.

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The questions for Presbyterians are simple as well, but there is a process leading up to it that is a tad more detailed.

I mean, the the RCC doesn't care- and I'm not Catholic myself, I guess I have no dog in this fight...

he might be confirmed in the church, but he aint married in the church.

the good news when they start butt phucking around and split up he won't have to bother with an annulment!

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Yes, buutttt.....

Do you know if he did or did go to confession and honestly repent?

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He may have but the greater responsibility is with the clergy. What we do know is that seriously unethical things were going on at a minimum. If someone in an openly homosexual marriage were to truly desire to enter the faith, then it would require separation from the individual and the lifestyle. There's no way the other person would have been his sponsor. This would have been considered very wrong and should have not been done. Sadly, by allowing this, the clergy is promoting the lifestyle. There is no other explanation.

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He may have but the greater responsibility is with the clergy. What we do know is that seriously unethical things were going on at a minimum. If someone in an openly homosexual marriage were to truly desire to enter the faith, then it would require separation from the individual and the lifestyle. There's no way the other person would have been his sponsor. This would have been considered very wrong and should have not been done. Sadly, by allowing this, the clergy is promoting the lifestyle. There is no other explanation.

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Agreed, my first post:

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This is performative, most likely, on the Bishops part which is the bigger problem than Confirming a practicing homosexual.

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The question isn't whether or not he should be confirmed as some definitive policing by "the Church." It is "Did he get appropriate reflection on what being Catholic means, what he is agreeing to, what should he do, what is he committing his life to, etc."

And the answer is clearly he did not. If he got appropriate council from these clergy he would have either 1) not followed through or 2) Confessed, followed through and changed his ways.

This is a clergy problem, not a person problem. The clergy is obviously framing all of this as "ok," in his preparation - THAT'S the problem.

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Should the church search social media and find all of the Catholic Abortion supporters and actively ban them from sacraments? Yes or no?

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The clergy has a responsibility once informed to require anyone living in open mortal sin repent. This means separating from the sinful practice. Your argument is a non sequitur, it does not come from the original concept.
Before you are accepted into the body of Christ, the Church has a great responsibility to insure you are where you need to be. After that, participation in sacraments are more on the conscious of the individual.

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Are gays barred from declaring their faith in the Presbyterian church?

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"Presbyterian" covers a lot... PCUSA probably requires a queer card to join up, others not so much.

Right now it feels like PCA is holding the line while still trying to be loving. Different congregations may interpret things a little looser or a little tighter. Honestly, I'm in between churches right now- in serious consideration of going Orthodox.

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God's saving love is absolutely conditional. Jesus said to "repent and believe" for eternal life. We have a responsibility to turn away from our sins and obey God as He has commanded as an evidence of the salvation that we have through Christ.

If this guy is an unrepentant homosexual, he should have no expectation that he is saved. If he were saved, the Spirit would be convicting him to repent of his homosexuality.

ETA: I should clarify that God's general love of benevolence is unconditional, but His saving love is particular to His elect, and His elect will most certainly repent and trust in Christ. There is no one whom God loves in election that will continue in unrepentant sin. Whom He foreloved, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, Jesus. Those who do not repent show no evidence of God's saving love towards them.

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Except for the fact that the Greek word for repent, Metanoia “ literally means to change your mind not immediately change your ways so you don’t sin anymore. None of us could ever approach God if not for grace and His unmerited salvation that Christ paid the price in full for. Some sins go almost immediately, and the other things are a battle, and continue to plague us, and take a while, but if you don’t believe first that God’s word us true, and we measure ourselves by His morality and truth rather than our own, there’s a very fundamental issue here with unbelief and salvation because you haven’t believed that Jesus is God, and His words and standards are the only truth we measure ourselves by.

This is all more to do with a change of heart, and an affirmation of the fact that God’s word is now the truth, not what they think is truth. It’s always about what you believe.

The hats are legit too. Went to a Greek Ortho wedding and it felt very familiar.