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re: Can someone explain to me how sex and gender are two different things?
Posted on 10/23/18 at 4:58 pm to AggieHank86
Posted on 10/23/18 at 4:58 pm to AggieHank86
First of all, I'll listen to their argument that sex and gender are somehow different when I hear an explanation that makes "gender identity" sound like anything different than personality.
Second, if a skinny person is convinced that they are fat and develop an eating disorder we all agree that the person in question has something wrong mentally. Why is that any different for someone that has a penis who is convinced that they are a woman?
Second, if a skinny person is convinced that they are fat and develop an eating disorder we all agree that the person in question has something wrong mentally. Why is that any different for someone that has a penis who is convinced that they are a woman?
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Posted on 10/23/18 at 5:07 pm to PrimeTime Money
quote:
I’m having trouble understanding what people mean when they say gender and sex are separate things.
I don't think I can explain it to you except that when that chick is going down on you in the VIP room at that titty bar and she will let you squeeze her titties but not take off her mini skirt, she just might have a dick down there.
Does that help you understand?
Posted on 10/23/18 at 5:30 pm to BRTigerDad
quote:
The Trump administration purportedly is considering defining gender as determined by sex organs at birth, which if adopted could deny certain civil rights protections to an estimated 1.4 million transgender Americans.
And I’m a cockatoo. I need my special civil rights protections for cockatoos.
Posted on 10/23/18 at 5:38 pm to the808bass
quote:You're smarter and better than this.
And I’m a cockatoo. I need my special civil rights protections for cockatoos.
Posted on 10/23/18 at 6:34 pm to Big Scrub TX
There’s no difference in me claiming to be a cockatoo and a guy claiming to be a xer.
Posted on 10/23/18 at 7:13 pm to the808bass
quote:There certainly is. If a male human (born with male genitals) also has a body that produces an unusually high level of estrogen (and maybe is deficient in testosterone as well), that could very well lead to completely "real" feelings of identity as somewhere closer to feminine rather than masculine, despite the presence of testicles. This isn't even vaguely analogous to your silly "cockatoo" construct...and you know it.
There’s no difference in me claiming to be a cockatoo and a guy claiming to be a xer.
Posted on 10/23/18 at 7:21 pm to Big Scrub TX
quote:An accurate, rational and non-snarky explanation that is totally wasted on its recipient. If a person has a penis, no other organ or bodily function is a matter of any consequence. "It is science."quote:There certainly is. If a male human (born with male genitals) also has a body that produces an unusually high level of estrogen (and maybe is deficient in testosterone as well), that could very well lead to completely "real" feelings of identity as somewhere closer to feminine rather than masculine, despite the presence of testicles. This isn't even vaguely analogous to your silly "cockatoo" construct...and you know it.
There’s no difference in me claiming to be a cockatoo and a guy claiming to be a xer.
quote:I disagree.
You're smarter and better than this.
This post was edited on 10/23/18 at 7:25 pm
Posted on 10/24/18 at 12:46 am to AggieHank86
quote:
AggieHank86
I always took you for a guy that enjoyed artificial pussys
Posted on 10/24/18 at 1:24 am to Big Scrub TX
quote:
If a male human (born with male genitals) also has a body that produces an unusually high level of estrogen (and maybe is deficient in testosterone as well), that could very well lead to completely "real" feelings of identity as somewhere closer to feminine rather than masculine, despite the presence of testicles.
So...a feminine male? That’s nothing new and not deserving of special protections or treatment. It’s what we used to call “personality”.
Posted on 10/24/18 at 1:30 am to AggieHank86
quote:
We COULD take steps to force conformity ... jail, ostracization, etcetera. We COULD "tolerate while expressing disdain." We COULD "celebrate our differences." Or we COULD choose not to concern ourselves with these matters, so long as they do not harm others. Personally, I fall into the latter category, regardless of whether the behavior is done intentionally and with the intent of "being different" (Beto wearing a dress in his band) or whether the behavior is done because something in the physical makeup (e.g. hormonal influences in utero) or psychological makeup (e.g. childhood influences, etcetera) of a person influences that person to do so (e.g. transgenderism).
I think most conservatives would also prefer to not concern themselves with these matters. It’s liberals who campaign on the issue. Where conservatives have a problem is when we are expected to play along with the fantasy. I don’t care if a boy thinks he’s a girl. I have a problem with that boy competing against girls in athletics though.
Posted on 10/24/18 at 6:19 am to Big Scrub TX
quote:
If a male human (born with male genitals) also has a body that produces an unusually high level of estrogen (and maybe is deficient in testosterone as well), that could very well lead to completely "real" feelings of identity as somewhere closer to feminine rather than masculine, despite the presence of testicles.
This is meaningless. The variances of estrogen in a male is almost infinite. And it’s only one variable in a sea of variables that leads people to gender dysphoria. There are without a doubt men who identify as transgender who have lower levels of estrogen in their bodies than men who do not identify as transgender.
Posted on 10/24/18 at 6:21 am to AggieHank86
quote:
An accurate, rational and non-snarky explanation that is totally wasted on its recipient. If a person has a penis, no other organ or bodily function is a matter of any consequence. "It is science."
And meaningless. Sorry I don’t respect your iconoclastic schtick here on this board. I’ve met real iconoclasts.
Posted on 10/24/18 at 9:20 am to PrimeTime Money
quote:
But wouldn’t that person just be a feminine male? Whether they are male or female doesn’t change.
I mean yeah. This whole thing is pretty much all about semantics.
The way they view it, you're born either XX or XY but everything else after that is a choice. For example, there's nothing in your XY chromosomes that says you have to have short hair and drive a truck. Or if you're born female there's nothing in your DNA that says you have to have long hair and wear dresses. That's all social conditioning which means it's free to be ignored.
Again, it basically boils down to semantics. You're right that it's biological males wanting to "present" as female or vice versa. Either way, whatever. The trans issue has zero effect on my life so they can do whatever as far as I'm concerned.
Posted on 10/24/18 at 10:04 am to PrimeTime Money
the left has misappropriated epigenetics and they are putting social pressure on people to agree with them.
there is no gay argument that can refute monozygotic twin studies regarding sexual orientation. it is a brute fact that twins should exhibit the SAME orientation in EVERY case. if twins do not, it is definitive proof that "gender" is a social construct. one twin is not getting more or less hormones than the other. the twins do not have disparate epigenetics.
there is no gay argument that can refute monozygotic twin studies regarding sexual orientation. it is a brute fact that twins should exhibit the SAME orientation in EVERY case. if twins do not, it is definitive proof that "gender" is a social construct. one twin is not getting more or less hormones than the other. the twins do not have disparate epigenetics.
Posted on 10/24/18 at 10:07 am to bfniii
1. You are conflating sexual orientation and gender.
2. I am not aware of any reputable source which claims that EITHER is entirely genetic.
2. I am not aware of any reputable source which claims that EITHER is entirely genetic.
Posted on 10/24/18 at 10:48 am to AggieHank86
quote:negative. i'm talking about biologically determined sex vs everything else. the former is established, demonstrable science. the latter is being twisted by some misguided people.
You are conflating sexual orientation and gender
quote:i didn't say genetic. i said epigenetic.
I am not aware of any reputable source which claims that EITHER is entirely genetic
Posted on 10/24/18 at 10:48 am to biglego
quote:Oh, I'm not arguing for any special protections. I'm simply answering the question how sex and gender are different.
So...a feminine male? That’s nothing new and not deserving of special protections or treatment. It’s what we used to call “personality”.
Posted on 10/24/18 at 10:49 am to the808bass
quote:I don't see how it makes it meaningless just because there are many variations. In fact, I would think that's the whole point - sex is set and gender is more "fluid".
This is meaningless. The variances of estrogen in a male is almost infinite. And it’s only one variable in a sea of variables that leads people to gender dysphoria. There are without a doubt men who identify as transgender who have lower levels of estrogen in their bodies than men who do not identify as transgender.
Posted on 10/24/18 at 10:51 am to bfniii
quote:Fair enough.
i didn't say genetic. i said epigenetic.
Posted on 10/24/18 at 10:55 am to Big Scrub TX
quote:Agreed. 99.99% of the time, “sex” is pretty binary ... once we decide whether we are basing it upon chromosomes or upon genitalia.
I don't see how it makes it meaningless just because there are many variations. In fact, I would think that's the whole point - sex is set and gender is more "fluid".
“Gender” would seem to be more something you would need to chart in at least two dimensions, not even on a one-dimensional “spectrum.”
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