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re: Annual Juneteenth was not really a thing thread
Posted on 6/15/21 at 7:41 pm to Big Scrub TX
Posted on 6/15/21 at 7:41 pm to Big Scrub TX
quote:
I'm not saying it was an utterly mainstream, all-of-black-America thing like they are now pretending it always has been. But it is a thing. It has been for 150 years. It is markedly less ridiculous than Kwanzaa (which was created out of whole cloth in the 60s) and you are utterly absurd for arguing the opposite.
Yea, we don’t even believe in Kwanzaa like that. We like too much nice stuff that from the earth gifting crap. That’s straight BS lol
0
Posted on 6/15/21 at 7:42 pm to LABred08
quote:
How many ppl knew about the Tulsa in 1921? But it’s suddenly being revisited because of current events.
Not only that. Google Tulsa massacre manuscript.
Then google Christopher columbus manuscript discovered.
Posted on 6/15/21 at 7:44 pm to tduecen
Great. I welcome it as long as I, a white person, get to celebrate it in a happy way.
If not, RACIST HOLIDAY!
If not, RACIST HOLIDAY!
This post was edited on 6/15/21 at 7:44 pm
Posted on 6/15/21 at 7:47 pm to baybeefeetz
My grandparents and mom were from East Texas. They talked about people celebrating there in the 30s and 40s. I thought it was a Texas thing.
Posted on 6/15/21 at 7:48 pm to baybeefeetz
quote:
Let's focus in on this. Why do you think this has taken place? How has it taken place?
Easy, current events. We as a race tend to revisit or history and points of pride when we feel unheard, and/ or attacked. With now more avenues to expound on those than ever before when it comes to social media and increased voice in media of every kind, you hear it louder than you could ever have 30, 60, 90 years ago. It’s like bell bottoms, it looped back around, just got more attention this go round. Lockdown helped too, with people being stuck and not having a way to escape seeing it.
Posted on 6/15/21 at 7:50 pm to baybeefeetz
We invite white folks to the cookout. Just gotta be cool, open minded and understand you don’t bring food
Posted on 6/15/21 at 7:51 pm to LABred08
That's perfect for me. Lol I look forward to white people fricking y'all's holiday up with lower sodium juneteenth dishes and whatnot.
Correction: OUR holiday ;)
Correction: OUR holiday ;)
This post was edited on 6/15/21 at 7:53 pm
Posted on 6/15/21 at 7:55 pm to baybeefeetz
The problem with abolitionists is that they wanted slavery ended immediately. Do not pass go, do not collect $200.
They wanted millions of people who were nowhere near prepared to function in a civilized society immediately freed. It would have been just as cruel, if not more so, than those people remaining slaves... and that's even if you gave them some land and cash.
What if 20% of the country's population all had dozens of wolves or tigers as pets, and then we suddenly made it illegal and demanded those animals be set free? Answer that as though you were not an owner of those animals, nor were you some sort of animal rights activist. You're just an average person who sees the real possibility of millions of wolves or tigers being set free all around you.
You may not agree with the people who have the animals, but surely you'd see the issue with simply setting them free. This is how the vast majority of the country felt. And this was the entire conundrum of ending slavery since even before the country was founded, most people wanted to end it. The vast majority. The question was exactly how to do that. Immediate abolition obviously was not a good answer.
They wanted millions of people who were nowhere near prepared to function in a civilized society immediately freed. It would have been just as cruel, if not more so, than those people remaining slaves... and that's even if you gave them some land and cash.
What if 20% of the country's population all had dozens of wolves or tigers as pets, and then we suddenly made it illegal and demanded those animals be set free? Answer that as though you were not an owner of those animals, nor were you some sort of animal rights activist. You're just an average person who sees the real possibility of millions of wolves or tigers being set free all around you.
You may not agree with the people who have the animals, but surely you'd see the issue with simply setting them free. This is how the vast majority of the country felt. And this was the entire conundrum of ending slavery since even before the country was founded, most people wanted to end it. The vast majority. The question was exactly how to do that. Immediate abolition obviously was not a good answer.
This post was edited on 6/15/21 at 7:59 pm
Posted on 6/15/21 at 7:57 pm to deuceiswild
I understand the logic but even I see the foolishness of using zoo animals in the analogy.
I'd probably just explain it without use of the poetic device
I'd probably just explain it without use of the poetic device
This post was edited on 6/15/21 at 7:58 pm
Posted on 6/15/21 at 7:58 pm to Big Scrub TX
quote:
But it is a thing. It has been for 150 years. It is markedly less ridiculous than Kwanzaa (which was created out of whole cloth in the 60s) and you are utterly absurd for arguing the opposite.
The whiskey rebellion was "a thing," but I'm not sure how many people are still holding remembrance ceremonies about it. 20 years ago I knew what Kwanzaa was. I knew other people who knew what Kwanzaa was. I knew a family who celebrated Kwanzaa. TWO years ago none of those things were true regarding "Juneteenth." In other words, it's even more ridiculous than Kwanzaa. And, it should be noted, they're "pushed'for similar reasons.
Posted on 6/15/21 at 7:59 pm to texn
North of I-10 is Texas. Just kidding, but they do show Cowboys games up that way instead of Saints games if both of their games are at the same time. That was pretty frustrating when I gave a shite about the NFL and was up at the camp on Toledo Bend on game day.
Posted on 6/15/21 at 8:02 pm to baybeefeetz
You have a good point, and while it may be a harsh analogy, is it really THAT far off?
How does this work? Let's say that abolitionists were looked at the same way we today view those who think we can end fossil fuels and get all out energy from the wind and sun within the next five years.
Those people are out there, and they're serious. Their intent is noble and good. But realists know they're a bit off their rockers too. Is that better?
How does this work? Let's say that abolitionists were looked at the same way we today view those who think we can end fossil fuels and get all out energy from the wind and sun within the next five years.
Those people are out there, and they're serious. Their intent is noble and good. But realists know they're a bit off their rockers too. Is that better?
This post was edited on 6/15/21 at 8:04 pm
Posted on 6/15/21 at 8:03 pm to deuceiswild
quote:
deuceiswild
The problem with that entire train of thought is that who or what confederate or American government were going to educate, train, build up an entire slave population to slowly free them when it was appropriate? That’s a farce
It was full on can of worms or business as usual and it was a bit of both anyway, with the then creation of sharecropping. Freedom was the best out. It’s the continued interference in progress after freedom was attained that more of the hold up to immediate progress.
Posted on 6/15/21 at 8:05 pm to deuceiswild
Yeah I guess that's better. I think you raise an interesting issue. What would it have taken to get the freed slaves on their feet? And how long would it have taken? Wouldn't have been crazy to argue back then that it would be a mistake to free slaves without a big plan to get them to be productive members of free society ASAP.
I will answer my own question: it would take at least a generation. Probably several At the end of the day, parents raise children. Only equipped parents can raise equipped kids. First gen of freed slaves simply would not have been capable to produce fully competitive kids.
I will answer my own question: it would take at least a generation. Probably several At the end of the day, parents raise children. Only equipped parents can raise equipped kids. First gen of freed slaves simply would not have been capable to produce fully competitive kids.
This post was edited on 6/15/21 at 8:08 pm
Posted on 6/15/21 at 8:07 pm to LABred08
quote:
What is Cinco De Mayo to non-Hispanic Americans?
An excuse to drink cerveza.
Posted on 6/15/21 at 8:08 pm to LABred08
Yeah, it was fricked, and there is no way it could have worked if you really think about it.
Posted on 6/15/21 at 8:10 pm to LABred08
I don't disagree with your first paragraph. Again, this was the entire conundrum for a century BEFORE the EP was ultimately signed.
Who exactly was going to fix those things? Who? The 80% of the population who didn't really have a dog in the fight other than a belief that it was wrong? These were hard times. Most people struggled to survive. If I'm an average Midwesterner in those days I'd say GTFO if you asked me to help you with your slave problem. I got problems of my own. Which politician is going to impose such a burden on such a huge % of the people? Yes, it was political as well.
We can agree on your second paragraph. But likely for different reasons. Racism was indeed a product of slavery and not the cause of it.
Who exactly was going to fix those things? Who? The 80% of the population who didn't really have a dog in the fight other than a belief that it was wrong? These were hard times. Most people struggled to survive. If I'm an average Midwesterner in those days I'd say GTFO if you asked me to help you with your slave problem. I got problems of my own. Which politician is going to impose such a burden on such a huge % of the people? Yes, it was political as well.
We can agree on your second paragraph. But likely for different reasons. Racism was indeed a product of slavery and not the cause of it.
Posted on 6/15/21 at 8:13 pm to baybeefeetz
We always celebrated around our house by eating watermelon. I never realized it had anything to do with black people.
Posted on 6/15/21 at 8:13 pm to baybeefeetz
I am not smart enough to know what it would have taken, nor how long. But I do feel that most peoples position on the matter was that they were against the practice, and they had problems of their own and didn't care to take responsibility for someone else's freed slaves whether directly, or indirectly, through higher taxation.
There's no easy answer. That's why we fought a war over the issue.
There's no easy answer. That's why we fought a war over the issue.
Posted on 6/15/21 at 8:18 pm to BayBengal9
quote:
Made up nonsensical bullshite. It's even more ridiculous than Kwanzaa and that's saying something.
I never heard of it growing up, but I was told about in in 2010 when I worked with a black girl from Odessa. All political, corporate, etc. efforts to appropriate it and turn it into something woke, I think it's a great holiday. It's a liberation holiday - what could be a better excuse for a day of celebration?
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