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re: Analyzing the Mid-Air Collision Over the Potomac By Captain Steeeve
Posted on 1/31/25 at 4:14 pm to Penrod
Posted on 1/31/25 at 4:14 pm to Penrod
As I posted about this video previously;
The chopper was instructed to go behind the incoming plane.
If they were looking at the trailing plane they decided to fly in front of it.
It doesn't matter what plane they were looking at in the end. They flew into the flightpath.
This guy's hypothesis falls apart with even a modicum of thought.
The chopper was instructed to go behind the incoming plane.
If they were looking at the trailing plane they decided to fly in front of it.
It doesn't matter what plane they were looking at in the end. They flew into the flightpath.
This guy's hypothesis falls apart with even a modicum of thought.
2
Posted on 1/31/25 at 4:28 pm to dgnx6
quote:
So what was the plan? 3 military personnel wanted to kill some teenage figure skaters?
No, but one pilot may have been suicidal and carried out the equivalent of a mass shooting. Commit suicide while taking as many people with them as possible.
It wouldn't be the first time. Germanwings 9525, a suicidal pilot flies an Airbus into a mountain killing 150 people.
Posted on 1/31/25 at 4:39 pm to Nurbis
How does a Blackhawk with all their technological advance in avionics not have the capabilities to tell pilots and crew they are about to hammer a plane?
This post was edited on 1/31/25 at 4:41 pm
Posted on 1/31/25 at 4:42 pm to BuckyCheese
quote:
This guy's hypothesis falls apart with even a modicum of thought.
Which guy’s hypothesis?
Yeah, the helicopter pilot was wrong, no doubt about that. He busted his corridor vertically and horizontally, along with the points you made.
ATC could have been better, and the Jet pilots could have been better, but the real mistake was the helo.
Posted on 1/31/25 at 4:43 pm to Penrod
The guy in the video. Obviously.
eta-What did the inbound jet pilots do wrong? They were exactly where they were supposed to be when the chopper flew into them from the side.
eta-What did the inbound jet pilots do wrong? They were exactly where they were supposed to be when the chopper flew into them from the side.
This post was edited on 1/31/25 at 4:45 pm
Posted on 1/31/25 at 4:49 pm to Rtowntiger
Looking at this cockpit, I think I know exactly what happened..
Pilot in Command is looking at the computer screen flying the plane.. trusting the equipment to show them anything that needed to be avoided..
Right seat is looking at the airport and the plane they are supposed to avoid on the right..
They fly right into the plane that is right in front of them.. I think the radar isn't detected under 1000 feet or something? Or is that in the movies..
All I know is that it would be real easy for me to lose focus on the real world happening right in front of me.. because of the giant screen in front of me showing me all the important data.. in theory..
But I don't know shite.. so maybe I'm wrong.
This post was edited on 1/31/25 at 4:50 pm
Posted on 1/31/25 at 4:49 pm to BuckyCheese
quote:
If they were looking at the trailing plane they decided to fly in front of it.
It doesn't matter what plane they were looking at in the end. They flew into the flightpath.
I took it as crossing the street, I can get across before the car coming would hit me, but looking at the 2nd car not the car that hit them.
ATC was telling them they were in the flight path, they said we see the plane and we will keep visual separation twice. They were planning to avoid the plane further out, which would have been at a much higher altitude at the time of the crash.
Posted on 1/31/25 at 4:59 pm to BuckyCheese
quote:
What did the inbound jet pilots do wrong?
Didn’t see and avoid the helicopter. It’s the law. In VMC each PIC is responsible for separation. That’s a tough one, but I’m told that on two pilot crews one is supposed to be outside the cockpit at all times. That helicopter had collision avoidance lights on. You are supposed to see it.
From AIM 4.4.1.d
quote:
When weather conditions permit, during the time an IFR flight is operating, it is the direct responsibility of the pilot to avoid other aircraft since VFR flights may be operating in the same area without the knowledge of ATC. Traffic clearances provide standard separation only between IFR flights.
This post was edited on 1/31/25 at 5:15 pm
Posted on 1/31/25 at 5:02 pm to Penrod
quote:
Didn’t see and avoid the helicopter. It’s the law. In VMC each PIC is responsible for separation.
Visible meteoritical conditions?
Posted on 1/31/25 at 5:05 pm to TigerintheNO
quote:
ATC was telling them they were in the flight path, they said we see the plane and we will keep visual separation twice. They were planning to avoid the plane further out,
Again. They were told to proceed behind the CJR.
Tell me how they are going to go behind the second plane, that the guy in the vid claims they were looking at, if they proceed to drill the plane in front of it?
This isn't hard...
Posted on 1/31/25 at 5:10 pm to BuckyCheese
quote:
Visible meteoritical conditions?
Visual Meteorological Conditions
Posted on 1/31/25 at 5:13 pm to Penrod
So you think a plane on final, at low speed, low revs, flaps, etc is supposed to avoid a chopper flying into it.
Yet another laughably bad take from you.
The chopper was given permission for VFR after claiming he had the plane is sight. The jet was never under VFR.
Yet another laughably bad take from you.
The chopper was given permission for VFR after claiming he had the plane is sight. The jet was never under VFR.
This post was edited on 1/31/25 at 5:14 pm
Posted on 1/31/25 at 5:17 pm to BuckyCheese
quote:
So you think a plane on final, at low speed, low revs, flaps, etc is supposed to avoid a chopper flying into it.
Yet another laughably bad take from you.
From AIM 4.4.1.d
quote:
When weather conditions permit, during the time an IFR flight is operating, it is the direct responsibility of the pilot to avoid other aircraft since VFR flights may be operating in the same area without the knowledge of ATC. Traffic clearances provide standard separation only between IFR flights.
Do you see an exception for
quote:
a plane on final, at low speed, low revs, flaps, etc
The CFRs make that the law! You have beclowned yourself, yet again.
BTW, if the jet pilots saw that plane three seconds before impact they would have avoided him.
This post was edited on 1/31/25 at 5:20 pm
Posted on 1/31/25 at 5:21 pm to BuckyCheese
quote:
The chopper was given permission for VFR after claiming he had the plane is sight. The jet was never under VFR.
The jet was presumably on an IFR flight plan in VMC. In that situation, per the section of AIM I cited, the Jet pilots are responsible for separation. That doesn’t relieve the helo pilots who made the egregious mistake, but it is the law.
Also,you are confused about what VFR is. The chopper was under VFR from the instant he left the ground.
This post was edited on 1/31/25 at 5:25 pm
Posted on 1/31/25 at 5:27 pm to Penrod
I find it comical that you continue your argument when 757 pilots here have said you are wrong.
Posted on 1/31/25 at 5:28 pm to Penrod
quote:
since VFR flights may be operating in the same area without the knowledge of ATC.
Both aircraft were operating with knowledge of ATC which puts control in their hands. The CRJ was cleared to land and the helicopter was told to keep visual separation and go behind. It was not the CRJ's responsibility.
This is like saying you are responsible for a car crash when you had a green light and the person that hit you had a red light.
Posted on 1/31/25 at 5:38 pm to Nurbis
quote:
Both aircraft were operating with knowledge of ATC which puts control in their hands. The CRJ was cleared to land and the helicopter was told to keep visual separation and go behind. It was not the CRJ's responsibility.
I cited the law! I had to pass tests on it. It was absolutely the CRJ’s responsibility. If you answered otherwise on an Instrument Proficiency Test you would get it wrong. Why don’t you show me the section of the Airman’s Information Manual that supports your point of view?
I’m going to reiterate: The main error was the helo pilot’s. Also, it isn’t easy to see traffic under almost any conditions.
This post was edited on 1/31/25 at 5:40 pm
Posted on 1/31/25 at 5:40 pm to Penrod
quote:
I cited the law! I had to pass tests on it. It was absolutely the CRJ’s responsibility. If you answered otherwise on an Instrument Proficiency Test you would get it wrong. Why don’t you show me the section of the Airman’s Information Manual that supports your point of view?
Posted on 1/31/25 at 5:41 pm to BuckyCheese
quote:
I find it comical that you continue your argument when 757 pilots here have said you are wrong.
Have not seen that, and I’d be very surprised.
I see that you passed on my suggestion that you show evidence of your POV, like I did. Clown
Your last two answers show that you have conceded the argument, so fine.
This post was edited on 1/31/25 at 5:46 pm
Posted on 1/31/25 at 5:51 pm to Penrod
There is no fricking way the airliner was in the wrong. No way. I don’t give a shite about your citation.
The helo fricked the dog six ways to Sunday. They also broke their “law” blatantly. And them wearing night vision goggles made it worse. It was like they didn’t have a clue and were on a damn training mission.
The helo fricked the dog six ways to Sunday. They also broke their “law” blatantly. And them wearing night vision goggles made it worse. It was like they didn’t have a clue and were on a damn training mission.
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