re: All the talk on Roe V. Wade

quote:

---

I'm certainly not making an appeal to history; I was simply pointing out that the definition of personhood has been fluid.

And no one (who is being honest with themselves) is arguing that a zygote isn't "human life". The question is whether it's a person, and if so, whether it has attained full personhood or partial. Which rights, both positive and negative, come with that designation?

---

Im right here with you on this. My question is...CAN science discover when someone has attained full personhood? I think we’ve convinced ourselves that it can, legislated on it, yet have 0 empiracle evidence. All science has revealed is what you said above, that a zygote is human life.

So why are we chancing this? If something is unknown, it’s not worth the risk of human life. Abortion is extremely aggressive and based on selfishness and the free pleasure of sex.

I appreciate your thoughtfulness

quote:

---

Awesome question. What do you think?

---

Without a basis in science or objective and observable reality, it leans heavily in the direction of a bloviated opinion.
What do you think, and what is the basis of your conclusion?

quote:

---

Im right here with you on this. My question is...CAN science discover when someone has attained full personhood? I think we’ve convinced ourselves that it can, legislated on it, yet have 0 empiracle evidence. All science has revealed is what you said above, that a zygote is human life.

So why are we chancing this? If something is unknown, it’s not worth the risk of human life. Abortion is extremely aggressive and based on selfishness and the free pleasure of sex.

I appreciate your thoughtfulness

---

I'm not sure if I agree that abortion is inherently aggressive. To reference back to my thread that I posted (if you read through it quickly, it will probably save us some time on back and forth ), is it aggressive for someone to, say, take a pill that thins the uterine walls such that the zygote, which utterly lacks consciousness or awareness, is flushed out? And once that happens, it simply stops development due to a lack of nourishment, causes the cells to die? Is it aggression to refuse to allow someone/something to leach nutrients from your body?

Now, a partial birth abortion in which a viable fetus is killed moments before birth? Certainly aggressive. But there's a fairly long continuum between conception and that point.

quote:

---

It is a legal/philosophical analysis ... and a rather good one

---

Thats nice.
An existing human life is neither philosophical nor legal.

quote:

---

What if it was caused by reckless/negligent behavior before a woman knew she was pregnant?

---

What of it?? Are you claiming that reckless or negligent behaviors, that result in the death of another living being, should have zero consequences?

quote:

---

quote:

---

She wanted the second pregnancy, but not the first. This should not be difficult to grasp.

---

Oh it wasn't. It was her 180 degree turnaround on the emotions she exhibited after both. When she referred to her miscarriage as "my baby", I hope it's not difficult for you to grasp the irony in that.

---

There IS no “irony” in mourning the loss of something you wanted and NOT mourning something you did not want. I do not think you understand irony very well.

quote:

---

There IS no “irony” in mourning the loss of something you wanted and NOT mourning something you did not want. I do not think you understand irony very well.

---

Some "thing" you wanted vs some "thing" you didn't.

quote:

---

When you..first brought it up..and then when questioned, provided a link to the concept?


* I was going to say, "Stop acting dumb"...but maybe you're not acting??

---

Nice sidestep.

I never once argued that individuals that lack full personhood are expendable. To extrapolate that from my posts is absurd. By analogy, when I say that I should be able to shoot and kill an intruder in my home, I'm not arguing that I should be able to do so because the intruder is "expendable". I'm arguing that my rights in that situation are superior to his, and so I get to make a choice: allow the intrusion, or dispel the intruder.

If a zygote has less than full personhood, it might mean that a woman has the right to refuse to nourish said zygote. If the zygote has full personhood, she might not have the right to make that choice.

Expendable has nothing to do with it, and your attempt at building a strawman is embarrassing.

quote:

---

Pro Choice - "Advocating legalized abortion."

So I was right in my original post.

---

No you aren't right. Being pro-choice doesn't mean you're cheerleading for abortions. I would hope that when all women get pregnant it's at a time they planned for and want to bring a very productive new human into this world. However it is her choice on when she wants to do that. To force all women to have babies makes society unequal between men and women. Having a baby is a tremendous responsibility on a woman. It unevens the playing field between men and women as far as business/jobs/power in society is concerned. Positions in these areas are tilted towards men because they never have to go through 9 months pregnancy and raise a new born baby. It immediately makes women unequal in society when you force them all to have babies. So like I said before, if men had babies abortions would be offered at walmart.

You are totally discounting personal responsibility. There is a reason sex is designed to be for married heterosexuals.