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Started By
Message
re: Aereo: How can anyone argue this is anything other than theft?
Posted on 4/28/14 at 9:45 am to Taxing Authority
Posted on 4/28/14 at 9:45 am to Taxing Authority
Let's look at this another way. The digital content is already mine to receive. It is, at a certain level, encrypted. Unfortunately, I'm unavailable to use my decrypter to receive it. So, I hire someone to decrypt it for me, and me only. They perform the decryption and push it to me in a form I can receive.
It was originally intended for me. It only made its way to me in the end. In between, the decryption service never sees it. They only descramble it so that it flows through to me in another encrypted form that only I, the intended recipient, can see.
Not following your logic about copies. That is a very highly flawed argument you are using.
It was originally intended for me. It only made its way to me in the end. In between, the decryption service never sees it. They only descramble it so that it flows through to me in another encrypted form that only I, the intended recipient, can see.
Not following your logic about copies. That is a very highly flawed argument you are using.
This post was edited on 4/28/14 at 9:48 am
1
Posted on 4/28/14 at 9:49 am to Taxing Authority
quote:
Not subject to copyright
You can legally make a copy of the content for your own viewing. There is no law that prevents me from recording OTA broadcasts and watching at my leisure.
Posted on 4/28/14 at 10:06 am to Taxing Authority
I'm confused how what Aereo is doing is any different than say Sony selling me a walkman that picks up the OTA radio signals that are broadcast FOR FREE and then me recording this onto a Cassette tape (old school). Royalies are paid by the broadcasters to the content creators through advertisement dollars, which is intended to reach consumers of the OTA signal.
How is this any different? I paid sony for a device to pick up a signal, i'm not paying sony for the signal.
How is this any different? I paid sony for a device to pick up a signal, i'm not paying sony for the signal.
Posted on 4/28/14 at 10:16 am to SidewalkDawg
Basically, you sign up to rent 2 antennas from them in your area. They run the signal through the Internet to your home. You can dvr shows too. It's a cloud based service.
Posted on 4/28/14 at 10:25 am to darkhorse
quote:
Basically, you sign up to rent 2 antennas from them in your area. They run the signal through the Internet to your home. You can dvr shows too. It's a cloud based service.
Right, but when I compare it to a walkman, how is it any different (I understand the technology is way different). Essentially they are capturing a signal, delivering it to me for consumption.
Aereo captures the signal and delivers it to me for consumption. I pay them for the equipment that does this, just like i pay Sony for the equipment.
I'm arguing that this isn't stealing.
Posted on 4/28/14 at 10:57 am to cave canem
quote:No. Sorry. It doesn't. Public display does NOT relinquish a copyright. That would kind of defeat the purpose
Free distribution makes all the difference in the world.
quote:Nope. The local broadcaster pays those fees. Though, some local stations are o/o by networks.
The networks have paid fees for the airwaves to be able to distribute this for free.
quote:Indeed. Aereo is not free, though.
They put up huge towers and though some local stations are buy millions of dollars worth of equipment so as many people as possible can get it for free.
quote:
They then compete with each other over who can get the most people top watch their free signal.
quote:Absolutely! What's wrong with charging for your work?
This is about protecting revenue they charge the service providers,
quote:Umm, the ability to control who can charge for your work is is the very definition of property protection.
not about protecting intilectual property they already give out for free.
Posted on 4/28/14 at 11:00 am to HubbaBubba
quote:It is! But it isn't yours to copy. And in this case someone receives it for you and charges you for it.
The digital content is already mine to receive.
quote:Public display does not give permission to make copies. It's as simple as that. I can explain further... but I need to know what you are having a problem understanding. (my failure, not yours)
Not following your logic about copies.
quote:How so?
That is a very highly flawed argument you are using.
This post was edited on 4/28/14 at 11:20 am
Posted on 4/28/14 at 11:02 am to C
quote:Absolutely! YOU can. But it appears to me, Aereo is the entity receiving, transcribing, and reselling the signal.
You can legally make a copy of the content for your own viewing. There is no law that prevents me from recording OTA broadcasts and watching at my leisure.
This post was edited on 4/28/14 at 11:20 am
Posted on 4/28/14 at 11:10 am to SidewalkDawg
quote:You are the first receptor. This is the way the copyright holder intended you to get the content. So the reception is no problem.
How is this any different? I paid sony for a device to pick up a signal, i'm not paying sony for the signal.
The copy would fall under fair use. You aren't selling it. You aren't distributing it. The moment you sell it, you've left the safe harbor of fair use. You could try to say you're only selling him maintenance costs for the Walkman but that seems like a trite ruse to me.
Sony has no claim as a manufacturer because how you use their device is up to you. (See the pull quote of the copyright law above) Aereo's device, as far as I can tell, has no other use, other than copying copyrighted content.
Posted on 4/28/14 at 11:13 am to SidewalkDawg
quote:How is that not making making and selling a copy?
Essentially they are capturing a signal, delivering it to me for consumption.
Posted on 4/28/14 at 11:49 am to Taxing Authority
quote:
How is that not making making and selling a copy?
They are not making a copy. Walk way from the DVR issue for a moment and just focus on the signal.
The 8VSB signal is an encrypted signal. It requires an 8VSB digital tuner to decrypt that signal. I don't have an 8VSB tuner. I have a 4G/LTE tuner. Now I have a right to receive AND decrypt that signal, and the law does not tell me that I must use an 8VSB decrypter, so I want to use a 4G/LTE decrypter, instead. In order to accomplish that, I have to use a transcoder. Since I don't own my own transcoder , I can either purchase my own, or I can pay to rent one. The logical choice is to rent one, since a transcoder is out of my budget.
In receiving the signal through MY antenna (located at Aereo), I use the rented transcoder (at Aereo) to convert the signal to match the signal I CAN receive.
Nowhere is the stream from broadcaster to me broken. I've merely allowed my rented transcoder to convert the signal live to a different encoding algorith. Nowhere am I making or authorizing a copy of anything. I have merely decrypted and re-encrypted the signal to meet MY requirements. Since neither the broadcasters nor the FCC has defined HOW the signal must eventually be decrypted by me, no laws were broken and no public transmission has been allowed.
I get what you're saying, but it just doesn't seem to hold up when you step back from what you're hanging your hat on and look at it objectively. You're not. I'm not paying for content. I'm only paying for a decoding/transcoding service that I direct.
This reminds me of the union people I have to use at convention centers. It's all about protectionism. I have my items delivered to the booth (by teamsters) that need to be installed. I pay for electrical service, but I can only receive electrical service if I let a "union guy" plug my power cord into the outlet. If I plug it in myself, they will cut power to my booth. There is no real reason to it. It's only to protect someone's piece of the pie. Same here.
This post was edited on 4/28/14 at 2:29 pm
Posted on 4/29/14 at 12:40 am to a want
quote:
But the nightclub pays royalties for playing the song in their nightclub!
This is the dumbest thing I've read all day. Nightclubs hire DJs who play music in clubs. The nightclub owners don't pay any royalties to anybody. Most-likely the DJ illegally downloaded the music as well and didn't pay for it. What in the hell are you talking about? Or are you old?
Posted on 4/29/14 at 8:15 am to Bucktown Tigah
quote:
This is the dumbest thing I've read all day.
Oh good!
A "your[sic] an idiot" post.
quote:
Nightclubs hire DJs who play music in clubs. The nightclub owners don't pay any royalties to anybody. Most-likely the DJ illegally downloaded the music as well and didn't pay for it. What in the hell are you talking about?
Copyright Law
quote:
Or are you old?
Yes. I pay for all of my music, too. :shocker:
But I'm probably rich, too, according to you.
Posted on 4/29/14 at 11:32 pm to a want
quote:
Yes. I pay for all of my music, too. :shocker:
Sucker. Haha.
quote:
But I'm probably rich, too, according to you.
What does that even mean? I know many club owners/promoters. NOBODY is paying for music. They pay for the DJs to play music. Maybe you're thinking of those juke box things in small neighborhood bars with like a thousand songs in them in which, yes, the owner paid for it.
I think you're rich? I'm legitimately confused.
This post was edited on 4/29/14 at 11:34 pm
Posted on 4/30/14 at 12:21 am to HubbaBubba
quote:You'll have to explain this to me. How are they allowing delayed play back without making a copy? Time machine?
They are not making a copy.
quote:"The law" doesn't have to. Copyright law doesn't work that way. By default you do not have the right to copy another's work. Only under special circumstances that are delineated very clearly (See quoted sections of the law above for rebroadcast exceptions) without a express permission from the copyright holder.
the law does not tell me that I must use an 8VSB decrypter
quote:It's not your antenna. Can you visit it? Can you touch it?
In receiving the signal through MY antenna (located at Aereo),
quote:
I'm not paying for content. I'm only paying for a decoding/transcoding service that I direct.
So you aren't paying for the content, you're paying someone to copy the content for you? That's not legal. quote:Of course it is! People want to protect their private creative work from being taken without their permission. It is one of the most basic property rights. It's why it was included in the Constitution. It's nothing like unions agreements.
It's all about protectionism.
Look, I'm a small government guy. About as anti-government involvement as it gets. But private property protection is one of the few areas I think government has a clear role in society. As did the Founding Fathers.
quote:Tell your son he has no real reason to copyright his photos.
There is no real reason to it.
This post was edited on 4/30/14 at 12:33 am
Posted on 4/30/14 at 12:27 am to Bucktown Tigah
quote:Just because you can get away with something doesn't mean it's legal. LINK /
This is the dumbest thing I've read all day. Nightclubs hire DJs who play music in clubs. The nightclub owners don't pay any royalties to anybody. Most-likely the DJ illegally downloaded the music as well and didn't pay for it.
The reality is most bars clear through ASCAP and BMI. It's not like they are going out of their way to tell you... it's not like its expensive.
Posted on 4/30/14 at 8:26 am to Taxing Authority
quote:Your inability or refusal to understand that transcoding is not creating a copy shows that you are either incredibly uneducated in signal and encoding technologies or deliberate in your refusal to consider that your emotional and romanticised view of protectionism has clouded your ability to accept that change might possibly be good.
Taxing Authority
Too bad. You seem like an otherwise intelligent fellow.
Tell me. Did your great grandfather own a buggy whip business and refuse to ride in a horseless carriage?
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