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Message
re: A question about the National Debt from a layman
Posted on 6/7/14 at 7:38 pm to NC_Tigah
Posted on 6/7/14 at 7:38 pm to NC_Tigah
quote:
Raised rates would increase cost of debt.
Increasing those costs even to normal historical would raise "interest" on the national debt to a level equaling the entire defense budget, or all of medicare/medicaid.
Not to mention the cost of debt to US consumers and what effects that would have on asset prices, such as housing. Also, if relative risk-based pricing were to hold constant, the cost of debt to just about every entity (individual, corporation, small businesses) would increase as Treasury rates increase, which could really screw up our economy. The consumer and investment portions of GDP would likely plummet, asset prices such as commercial real estate could fall, which could result in another credit crisis as banks write down or write off CRE loans, etc. Basically, the house of cards could fall flat. It'd be bad.
Posted on 6/7/14 at 11:24 pm to PrimeTime Money
quote:
The government will never default. They'll try to print their way out.
This. The printing of money means it is worth less since the supply of money goes up (assuming constant demand). That means inflation. Which means the money you have in your bank account does not buy as much.
On the other hand, it is good for people who have a lot of debt with a fixed interest rate. Looks like those with massive student loans and a liberal arts degree will have the last laugh after all!
Posted on 6/7/14 at 11:36 pm to jb4
quote:
GM style BK coming sometime
Remember guys, people don't have printing presses, companies don't have printing presses, local and state governments don't have printing presses. Only the federal government has the pleasure of the Federal Reserve printing press. If the federal government runs into debt service issues, the US Treasury just makes a call to the FR to start up the printing presses. Normal zero sum game accounting does not apply to the federal government. They have an endless supply of money.
Posted on 6/7/14 at 11:54 pm to RustyTiger
quote:
You guys that think it can never happen here and that America will always take care of us. That they will always tell us the truth and be up front with the population. Just ask the Native American Indians as we took their land and promised that they could live on these wonderful reservation while being taken care of. Today ask the VA why they lied sometimes getting a bonus in doing so. Touch Social Security, ha you better get a clue. They did that and today most people will get less than they put into SS. It is a Ponzi scheme. Now they are looking at MEANS TESTING to see who they can cut from the herd even though you paid into the system for maybe 40+ years. NC MD come back in a few years when you will be paid less for Medicaid than they are paid today.
Yes the debt is a problem that needs to be dealt with and the sooner the better. However you tinfoil hat wearing idiots will find somthing else to rail about then because it's ingrained in your dna. The sky is not falling and whenever people give a shite enough about the debt problem it will be resolved one way or another. China and Japan's economy would crash about 15 min after the US economy, they would rather just write off the debt than let that happen.
Posted on 6/8/14 at 11:35 am to antibarner
The issue is less static then that. The crime is committed when the debt is created. But then these debt instruments are passed off the books of the people whose creation-of-them benefited them in what amounts to an almost pure act of thieving.
They need to be gotten rid of these debt instruments. To get rid of them requires their means-tested extinction, as well as retiring much of them with new cash, while stopping the bankers from pyramiding on top of the new cash.
However any key figure who goes to put this into action will have a lot of unfortunate things happen to him and his loved ones.
They need to be gotten rid of these debt instruments. To get rid of them requires their means-tested extinction, as well as retiring much of them with new cash, while stopping the bankers from pyramiding on top of the new cash.
However any key figure who goes to put this into action will have a lot of unfortunate things happen to him and his loved ones.
Posted on 6/8/14 at 12:05 pm to Gmorgan4982
quote:
I'm pretty sure I don't owe anybody.
It doesn't matter if you personally owe anybody if you're using the US dollar the debt affects it's value.
Posted on 6/8/14 at 1:33 pm to constant cough
Well yes we could just destroy the debt.
One pile of debt I would eliminate is the social security trust fund. That is a very misleading name for a pile of bonds that your SS taxes buy when Congress uses your current contributions to run government.
We need to put a sales tax in effect to pay SS benefits AND mandate a savings plan for employees that would be funded with their present SS deductions and employer contributions. It is the basis fo the IB Freeman SS plan.
We adjust this proposed sales tax annually to reflect benefits all the while employees are building savings. As they retire they could not draw SS until those savings were exhausted and they could not draw those savings faster than they would draw SS. Basically everybody would have their own retirement fund BUT SS would still exists for those who exhaust their savings.
The SS system would immediately start shrinking. No trust fund would be needed so the trust fund could be eliminated and returned to the treasury saving billions in interest.
Now that said the biggest pile we own are the bonds the Fed has bought. We really need to explore the confiscation of those bonds and their impact. (Do we really need such an intrusive central bank as we have?) The other alternative is to mint a few trillion dollar bills and pay cash to the fed for their bonds. Inflationary perhaps but a solution.
One pile of debt I would eliminate is the social security trust fund. That is a very misleading name for a pile of bonds that your SS taxes buy when Congress uses your current contributions to run government.
We need to put a sales tax in effect to pay SS benefits AND mandate a savings plan for employees that would be funded with their present SS deductions and employer contributions. It is the basis fo the IB Freeman SS plan.
We adjust this proposed sales tax annually to reflect benefits all the while employees are building savings. As they retire they could not draw SS until those savings were exhausted and they could not draw those savings faster than they would draw SS. Basically everybody would have their own retirement fund BUT SS would still exists for those who exhaust their savings.
The SS system would immediately start shrinking. No trust fund would be needed so the trust fund could be eliminated and returned to the treasury saving billions in interest.
Now that said the biggest pile we own are the bonds the Fed has bought. We really need to explore the confiscation of those bonds and their impact. (Do we really need such an intrusive central bank as we have?) The other alternative is to mint a few trillion dollar bills and pay cash to the fed for their bonds. Inflationary perhaps but a solution.
Posted on 6/8/14 at 5:18 pm to I B Freeman
I have always thought we could prop up SS by thinking out of the box. New revenue streams,such as a Federal Lottery and legalizing pot in all 50 states, taxing it and earmarking both to Social Security. No new taxes unless you participate in the new activities.
This post was edited on 6/8/14 at 5:21 pm
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