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Started By
Message
re: A jury decided they were not guilty. A judge sentenced them to life in prison anyway
Posted on 11/30/23 at 12:28 pm to 4cubbies
Posted on 11/30/23 at 12:28 pm to 4cubbies
quote:
Historically, th government has done nothing or very, very little to do anything other than harm the descendants the slaves.
Sure. Agreed again. All they've done is institutionally encourage broken families, generational dependence, etc. So perhaps we shouldn't wait for government to work on their end of things first, what do you think?
quote:
Probably because they are disabled.
You think that, do you? I might be talking to someone too gullible to have a meaningful conversation with if that's the case.
quote:
Who is doing this?
The fact that you can type the quoted lines in the same post in the context of this discussion and still think that's a valid question have almost convinced me that there aren't enough IQ points on your side of the table for this discussion.
1
Posted on 11/30/23 at 12:46 pm to wackatimesthree
quote:
You think that, do you? I might be talking to someone too gullible to have a meaningful conversation with if that's the case.
Do you think someone can survive on SSI disability? Do you know how much it is? $733/month. If you think people can survive on that, let alone live comfortably, I might be talking to someone too gullible to have a meaningful conversation with.
quote:
The fact that you can type the quoted lines in the same post in the context of this discussion and still think that's a valid question have almost convinced me that there aren't enough IQ points on your side of the table for this discussion.
Instead of completing a creative writing exercise grounded in insults, I’m going to communicate with you as an adult would. I’m arguing that the descendants of slaves have been systematically prohibited from advancing for many generations and most of American history, which explains why the demographic continues to lag behind other demographics.
We’ve already discussed and agreed that no meaningful advancements can be made until black Americans stop being treated like black Americans and start being treated as simply Americans.
I don’t know how you decided that meant I believe black people have a permanent disability and I’m really not interested in entertaining that idea.
This post was edited on 11/30/23 at 12:50 pm
Posted on 11/30/23 at 2:20 pm to 4cubbies
quote:
Do you think someone can survive on SSI disability?
When did I ever say that? You've got a habit of erecting strawmen, did you know that?
quote:
Do you know how much it is? $733/month
That is incorrect. It MAY be $773 a month if it's a SS disability, but private disability is dependent upon the person's salary before disability was granted.
quote:
If you think people can survive on that, let alone live comfortably
O.k., and if you think cows can fart their way to the moon, you might be a moron. And since neither one of us said anything like either of the examples we both just acted like each other actually said, then I think we're both safe.
All that said, there are 10,000,000 Americans receiving SSD disability benefits. Are they all dead, or do you think that they also qualify for other benefits that allow them to keep living?
No one needs to be able to live on $773 a month to not want to lose a free $773 a month. Nor did anyone but you claim that was so.
Now, let's bring this to an anecdotal level.
My business involves providing medical services for people in chronic pain. I've met hundreds of people in my 18 years in this business either on disability or trying to get it and been in the position of evaluating them and either recommending them for disability or not. How many people on disability do you know?
quote:
I’m going to communicate with you as an adult would.
Too late. Adults don't constantly mischaracterize what opther adults claim for convenience' sake.
quote:
I don’t know how you decided that meant I believe black people have a permanent disability
Then I'll ask it another way.
What exactly is preventing black people from:
1. Naming their children traditional English names? They used to, so what's stopping them now?
2. Participating in making sure that their children are educated in schools instead of specifically telling them, "You don't have to do anything those white teachers tell you to do," and the community pressuring them to not "act white?" And don't even try to act like that isn't a widespread cultural phenomenon.
3. Refraining from committing so many crimes, especially violent crimes? Again, the black community is far more educated and far less of them are in poverty than in 1940 when the crime rate wasn't nearly as high. So what institutional pressures are MORE prominent now than they were then?
4. Getting married and having children in two-parent homes. We both know the answer to this one, but let's see if you're honest enough to admit it.
Let's start with those things.
Because black people have to treat THEMSELVES like Americans too. Nobody else is going to do it if they don't.
So given that all of those are things that have gotten worse as institutional racism has gotten better, what's stopping them from deciding to reverse those trends?
This post was edited on 11/30/23 at 2:48 pm
Posted on 11/30/23 at 4:30 pm to wackatimesthree
quote:
When did I ever say that? You've got a habit of erecting strawmen, did you know that?
I’m confused. You think people are getting on disability and not surviving?
quote:Yes, this is amount for someone who hasn’t earned much money. So are you implying black people give up lucrative careers to get on disability? The average annual income of a black American is $46,400. If a person was making $50k annually and then qualified for disability, his monthly income would be $1,664. Are you claiming this amount is what black people are hoping for?
That is incorrect. It MAY be $773 a month if it's a SS disability, but private disability is dependent upon the person's salary before disability was granted.
quote:
All that said, there are 10,000,000 Americans receiving SSD disability benefits. Are they all dead, or do you think that they also qualify for other benefits that allow them to keep living?
I think some of them have spouses or family that can contribute financially to their support assuming the person is disabled. I work with extremely marginalized people and I’ve met a person who survived solely on SSI, food stamps and some sort of supportive living situation. She was brooooooke and her quality of life was shite. She struggled with addiction and mental illness so she didn’t have any other options.
This post was edited on 12/1/23 at 6:37 am
Posted on 12/1/23 at 6:29 am to 4cubbies
quote:I supposed the question was straight-forward. Apparently it wasn't?
how does the success, financial situation, etc of Black Americans compare with their Black African lineages?
----
Are you comparing them to their black ancestors who lived in America but were not enslaved? Or do you mean their ancestors who weren't slaves and never stepped foot in America? How are those two groups comparable?
When the Bono, Ashanti, Yoruba, etc. captured their fellow Africans to sell them to Portuguese, British, and French slavers, they did not capture everyone. Those who were not captured comprise foundation of the African lineages referenced. Often they were siblings, cousins, etc of those brought to the Americas.
E.g., Median income in those west-central African lineage states Benin, Ghana, Guinea, Guinea-Bissau, Ivory Coast, Liberia, Gabon, Cameroon, Angola, etc. generally runs form $1-$10/day. The median Black American household earns about $53,000.00/yr, > 10X to 100X that of their African brethren. So, as you asked the question, I think we can surmise the two groups are not comparable.
As a broad pretext, for all the horrible things their ancestors endured, present-day Americans of African descent are far far better off here, now, than they would be had their ancestors had not been ripped from their countries of origin. The same favorable comparison is true of Black Americans vs Blacks in the Caribbean or South America.
So could we do better as a society? Yes. Could Blacks do better for themselves? Yes. But a little of the self-loathing narrative goes a long way.
This post was edited on 12/1/23 at 6:33 am
Posted on 12/1/23 at 6:40 am to 4cubbies
quote:
You think people are getting on disability and not surviving?
YOU said people can't survive on $773 a month. YOU. SAID. THAT. As though it was relevant in some way.
quote:
So are you implying black people give up lucrative careers to get on disability?
Good grief. No, I'm telling you that you were wrong when you said disability necessarily = $773 a month. That's it. No other implication.
I promise that I am not trying to be disrespectful with what I am about to say. But are you really that clueless about this exchange (because it wasn't very complicated), or is this just a smokescreen to avoid answering the other question I asked that you ignored?
Pretty sure I know the answer, but just for the record.
Posted on 12/1/23 at 6:43 am to 4cubbies
Since you completely ignored this part, I'll ask it again:
Then I'll ask it another way.
What exactly is preventing black people from:
1. Naming their children traditional English names? They used to, so what's stopping them now?
2. Participating in making sure that their children are educated in schools instead of specifically telling them, "You don't have to do anything those white teachers tell you to do," and the community pressuring them to not "act white?" And don't even try to act like that isn't a widespread cultural phenomenon.
3. Refraining from committing so many crimes, especially violent crimes? Again, the black community is far more educated and far less of them are in poverty than in 1940 when the crime rate wasn't nearly as high. So what institutional pressures are MORE prominent now than they were then?
4. Getting married and having children in two-parent homes. We both know the answer to this one, but let's see if you're honest enough to admit it.
Let's start with those things.
Because black people have to treat THEMSELVES like Americans too. Nobody else is going to do it if they don't.
So given that all of those are things that have gotten worse as institutional racism has gotten better, what's stopping them from deciding to reverse those trends?
quote:
I don’t know how you decided that meant I believe black people have a permanent disability
Then I'll ask it another way.
What exactly is preventing black people from:
1. Naming their children traditional English names? They used to, so what's stopping them now?
2. Participating in making sure that their children are educated in schools instead of specifically telling them, "You don't have to do anything those white teachers tell you to do," and the community pressuring them to not "act white?" And don't even try to act like that isn't a widespread cultural phenomenon.
3. Refraining from committing so many crimes, especially violent crimes? Again, the black community is far more educated and far less of them are in poverty than in 1940 when the crime rate wasn't nearly as high. So what institutional pressures are MORE prominent now than they were then?
4. Getting married and having children in two-parent homes. We both know the answer to this one, but let's see if you're honest enough to admit it.
Let's start with those things.
Because black people have to treat THEMSELVES like Americans too. Nobody else is going to do it if they don't.
So given that all of those are things that have gotten worse as institutional racism has gotten better, what's stopping them from deciding to reverse those trends?
Posted on 12/1/23 at 6:51 am to NC_Tigah
quote:
E.g., Median income in those west-central African lineage states Benin, Ghana, Guinea, Guinea-Bissau, Ivory Coast, Liberia, Gabon, Cameroon, Angola, etc. generally runs form $1-$10/day. The median Black American household earns about $53,000.00/yr, > 10X to 100X that of their African brethren. So, as you asked the question, I think we can surmise the two groups are not comparable.
I’m surprised you’re going here. Are you implying the descendants of slaves are better off because their ancestors were kidnapped and enslaved? That’s some sort of privilege? Do they owe society something for being compassionate enough to enslave their ancestors and bring them to America, where they were brutalized for hundreds of years?
quote:
present-day Americans of African descent are far far better off here, now, than they would be had their ancestors had not been ripped from their countries of origin. The same favorable comparison is true of Black Americans vs Blacks in the Caribbean or South America.
I have a close friend from Madagascar who immigrated to America. He enjoyed a great upbringing. It wasn’t the typical American childhood because he grew up in Africa. I’ll have to ask him if he resents that his ancestors were not enslaved and brought to America.
Posted on 12/1/23 at 7:00 am to 4cubbies
quote:
Are you implying the descendants of slaves are better off because their ancestors were kidnapped and enslaved?
No, he's stating it as a fact, which it is.
quote:
That’s some sort of privilege?
No. You have to understand something. Conservatives don't live in a world where "privilege" and "blame" are the focal points of life. Conservatives deal with what is, now.
It is a fact that ceteris parabus, the ancestors of those people are (much) better off than they would have been had their ancestors not been sold into slavery. This is true of almost all examples of "colonization" as well.
That doesn't mean slavery was a moral thing. It obviously wasn't. It was amoral atrocity (that was widely practiced at the time and that indigenous African people participated in just like white and brown people from Europe and South America). But the FACT is that what he said was true.
quote:
Do they owe society something for being compassionate enough to enslave their ancestors and bring them to America, where they were brutalized for hundreds of years?
Again, questions like this exist only in a liberal mind. They are, of course, nonsense. Of course they don't owe society anything. And society doesn't owe them anything. History happened and they got lucky, because they got to experience the benefit of all of that without having to go through any of the horror that produced it. That's true for pretty much all of us, btw. People my age and younger didn't have to storm the beach at Normandy or face police dogs during civil rights marches or fight the Civil War or be slaves or any number of other sequences of events that led history up to where we are now. Life is much better and easier now, and for all of the ugliness in past history this country and the ideals that spawned it have produced by far the best standard of living, the most freedom, the most racial equality, and the most opportunity in the history of the world, and that's not debatable.
That's it.
quote:
I’ll have to ask him if he resents that his ancestors were not enslaved and brought to America.
You should. But you should start by telling him that no one said anything like that on this board but you. You're doing the same thing to this guy that you've been doing to me. Making shite up and ascribing it to someone else.
And I'm still waiting for an answer to those questions above.
This post was edited on 12/1/23 at 7:06 am
Posted on 12/1/23 at 7:13 am to 4cubbies
quote:Stop with the emotional crap!
Are you implying the descendants of slaves are better off because their ancestors were kidnapped and enslaved?
I'm implying nothing. I am laying flat out, indisputable fact.
Do you dispute the fact that the median Black American household is vastly better off than that of their ancestral lands?
quote:Does a society which fought a war singularly responsible for more deaths than all other American wars combined in order to rectify its wrongs, then went through a decade of financially crippling "reconstruction," owe more? Perhaps. Now inject the war on poverty, affirmative action, racism targeting whites, asians, jews, and now hispanics ... what more is the debt you suggest paying?
Do they owe society something for being compassionate enough to enslave their ancestors and bring them to America, where they were brutalized for hundreds of years?
quote:Don't waste your time. No slaves came from Madagascar. Instead, ask him why he chose to immigrate to such a racist, horrible place as your America is, instead of immigrating to Angola, Guinea, or Gambia? Then listen very closely to his answer.
I have a close friend from Madagascar who immigrated to America...I’ll have to ask him if he resents that his ancestors were not enslaved and brought to America.
Posted on 12/1/23 at 7:22 am to 4cubbies
quote:Some of my ancestors were walked to death on the trail of tears.
Do they owe society something for being compassionate enough to enslave their ancestors and bring them to America, where they were brutalized for hundreds of years?
You don’t see me bitching about it. We took the land from the people who had it before us, you don’t think we asked nicely do you?
History is filled with this. Key word, history. For the most part we’ve gotten past it though morons like you are determined to bring it back.
I’m an American, I’ve always felt the moment you put something in front of the word, you become less of one. I can, I don’t because tribalism is BAD, and only results in bad things when tribes disagree.
So no, we aren’t owned anything more than the opportunity we have thanks to this great nation. Grow the frick up
Posted on 12/1/23 at 7:25 am to 4cubbies
quote:
I have a close friend from Madagascar who immigrated to America. He enjoyed a great upbringing. It wasn’t the typical American childhood because he grew up in Africa. I’ll have to ask him if he resents that his ancestors were not enslaved and brought to America.
You really are impossible. It is almost as if you are purposely obtuse now just for attention. You've completely lost it. Like the other leftists on this board, you are now to the point where you provide no value at all, just emotional drivel.
Posted on 12/1/23 at 7:28 am to wackatimesthree
quote:
And I'm still waiting for an answer to those questions above.
Like every other Progressive in the world, she is not going to. These questions cannot be answered honestly in the fricked up world Progressives live in. It is truly amazing to watch.
I marvel at the patience of many of you here. You know you are replying to literal morons or trolls, yet you try anyway.
Posted on 12/1/23 at 7:31 am to 4cubbies
quote:
Historically, th government has done nothing or very, very little to do anything other than harm the descendants the slaves.
Then stop voting Democrat.
Black people want opportunity, not handouts. Stop creating dependency.
Posted on 12/1/23 at 7:35 am to RogerTheShrubber
quote:
Then stop voting Democrat.
That won't happen. Literally has become the perfect Democrat voter.
My ancestors were dropped off here and left to die like almost every other Cajun. Am I better off because this happened? Absolutely.
The fact that a simple concept like this cannot be grasped is just the tip of the iceberg.
Posted on 12/1/23 at 7:38 am to EZE Tiger Fan
quote:
. Literally has become the perfect Democrat voter.
Shes playing the part of an activist. She will vote Democrat if it means losing everything she has.
Posted on 12/1/23 at 8:37 am to wackatimesthree
quote:
Conservatives deal with what is, now.
Then why pose the argument that “well if we wouldn’t have enslaved them, they’d be worse off!”?
That’s not what is, now. That’s a fantasy.
quote:I feel the exact same way about the opinions in this thread. I figured that goes without saying, but duly noted.
They are, of course, nonsense.
quote:I’m taking ridiculous arguments to their logical ends.
Making shite up and ascribing it to someone else.
Posted on 12/1/23 at 11:47 am to 4cubbies
quote:Facts are fantasy? How quaint.
That’s a fantasy.
Posted on 12/1/23 at 2:24 pm to NC_Tigah
quote:
Facts are fantasy? How quaint.
Facts? You’re speculating about the outcomes of fictional people who had fictional experiences.
Posted on 12/2/23 at 11:56 am to 4cubbies
quote:Comparing financial status of one population vs the other is "speculating about the outcomes of fictional people"?
You’re speculating about the outcomes of fictional people
Really?
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