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Message
re: Official AR-15 thread
Posted on 12/21/15 at 9:47 pm to BoogerNuts
Posted on 12/21/15 at 9:47 pm to BoogerNuts
Hey guys, have a few questions about getting my new Bushmaster up to snuff. I recently went to my LGS to check on prices on M&P Sport and AR556. I do a lot of business with this place and he said he had no idea when he would have the Rugers in stock (what I really wanted) and was waiting to see when he would be getting the Sport 2.
I already have an M&P that started life as a Magpul MOE edition but a few $$$ later and it has become a heavy arse gun I rarely shoot unless on a bench at the range. Anyways, I walked out of there with a Bushmaster Patrolman for $600 cash. I'm mostly wanting to use it as just a fun plinker, but also plan on keeping it chambered in the corner of the bedroom.
So far I have ordered all Magpul furniture (SL handguard, pistol grip, CTR stock, trigger guard, MBUS - carry handle is coming off with a quickness) an H buffer, BCM BCG, and will be putting a 2.5lb Velocity trigger in. I will also be having the stock extension re-staked. Eventually I'd like to drop in a 1/7 barrel.
After all is said and done (besides barrel) I will have put around $950 into it. How does this build sound to ya'll? Did I spend to much doing it this way as opposed to buying a pre-built rifle online of similar specs? It was a somewhat impulse buy, as I went in to price check a completely different gun and walked out with a brand I had never even shot before. I know Bushmaster is no where near the top as far as quality, but are there any other fairly inexpensive upgrades I can do to improve it?
I already have an M&P that started life as a Magpul MOE edition but a few $$$ later and it has become a heavy arse gun I rarely shoot unless on a bench at the range. Anyways, I walked out of there with a Bushmaster Patrolman for $600 cash. I'm mostly wanting to use it as just a fun plinker, but also plan on keeping it chambered in the corner of the bedroom.
So far I have ordered all Magpul furniture (SL handguard, pistol grip, CTR stock, trigger guard, MBUS - carry handle is coming off with a quickness) an H buffer, BCM BCG, and will be putting a 2.5lb Velocity trigger in. I will also be having the stock extension re-staked. Eventually I'd like to drop in a 1/7 barrel.
After all is said and done (besides barrel) I will have put around $950 into it. How does this build sound to ya'll? Did I spend to much doing it this way as opposed to buying a pre-built rifle online of similar specs? It was a somewhat impulse buy, as I went in to price check a completely different gun and walked out with a brand I had never even shot before. I know Bushmaster is no where near the top as far as quality, but are there any other fairly inexpensive upgrades I can do to improve it?
This post was edited on 12/21/15 at 9:59 pm
5
Posted on 12/21/15 at 9:52 pm to BoogerNuts
quote:
BoogerNuts
Sounds like you know what you're doing. But for that price I would have just built one.
Posted on 12/21/15 at 10:14 pm to BoogerNuts
So you spent $600 on a rifle so you could toss every part except $20 worth of small parts and the receivers?
Why a BCM BCG? What's wrong with the one in it?
Why a 1/7 barrel? Are you mostly going to be shooting 80grn ammo?
Why a BCM BCG? What's wrong with the one in it?
Why a 1/7 barrel? Are you mostly going to be shooting 80grn ammo?
Posted on 12/21/15 at 10:28 pm to Propagandalf
Yea, pretty much. I was looking for a budget AR that I could do some minor mods to and call it a day. No matter what AR I bought in that price range it was going to get that furniture (I'm doing the stealth gray color, I just think it looks good). If I had gotten the Sport or AR556, it would have gotten the same. I should have clarified I was never intending to keep any of my options stock.
I just don't like how the key on the stock BCG is staked.
Yes, I would like to shoot some larger grain rounds.
I just don't like how the key on the stock BCG is staked.
Yes, I would like to shoot some larger grain rounds.
Posted on 12/21/15 at 10:31 pm to BoogerNuts
Why didn't you just buy an upper and lower and go from there?
And what to you mean you're re-staking the stock extension?
And what to you mean you're re-staking the stock extension?
Posted on 12/21/15 at 10:47 pm to bbvdd
quote:
Why didn't you just buy an upper and lower and go from there?
And what to you mean you're re-staking the stock extension?
I knew going into the purchase that I didn't want to spend a whole lot on the initial gun because I was going to be swapping all the furniture out for the Magpul gray. I probably could have saved a bit by doing that. That's pretty much what I was asking in my OP, if I had made a mistake by going this route.
I guess I shouldn't say "re" stake. The stock / buffer / receiver (whatever you wanna call it) extension on this gun is not staked at all.
Posted on 12/21/15 at 11:40 pm to BoogerNuts
Next time you could save about 350-400 buying the exact parts you want and building it out.
You're not gonna shoot that key off. Save the $120, or whatever BCM charges, and use your hammer and screw driver to stake away.
99% of shooters shoot mid 50s-60s grain 99% of the time. Why get a barrel purposed for something you will rarely use it for? Purpose build it for what you're going to use it for the majority of the time. If you're prodominently going to shoot 80+ grain ammo you should've bought an AR10. Save money on ammo, better selection and you get a bigger bullet.
I think the whole staking the castle nut came from the typo in the TM that for decades said torque the castle nut to 40 inch pounds instead of foot pounds. If you torque it to 40 foot pounds its not shooting off. Hell some barrel nuts, depending on how the barrel nut lines up, are only torqued to 30 foot pounds and you don't see the ARFCOMers staking barrel nuts.
quote:
I just don't like how the key on the stock BCG is staked
You're not gonna shoot that key off. Save the $120, or whatever BCM charges, and use your hammer and screw driver to stake away.
quote:
Yes, I would like to shoot some larger grain rounds.
99% of shooters shoot mid 50s-60s grain 99% of the time. Why get a barrel purposed for something you will rarely use it for? Purpose build it for what you're going to use it for the majority of the time. If you're prodominently going to shoot 80+ grain ammo you should've bought an AR10. Save money on ammo, better selection and you get a bigger bullet.
quote:
I guess I shouldn't say "re" stake. The stock / buffer / receiver (whatever you wanna call it) extension on this gun is not staked at all.
I think the whole staking the castle nut came from the typo in the TM that for decades said torque the castle nut to 40 inch pounds instead of foot pounds. If you torque it to 40 foot pounds its not shooting off. Hell some barrel nuts, depending on how the barrel nut lines up, are only torqued to 30 foot pounds and you don't see the ARFCOMers staking barrel nuts.
This post was edited on 12/21/15 at 11:45 pm
Posted on 12/22/15 at 12:44 am to BoogerNuts
quote:
After all is said and done (besides barrel) I will have put around $950 into it. How does this build sound to ya'll? Did I spend to much doing it this way as opposed to buying a pre-built rifle online of similar specs?
I think you spent too much on the guts of the thing. You're obviously not a novice - I'm going very carefully to try to not buy anything I have no need for. I'm starting with a stripped lower. I think you could have gone a PSA Magpul lower, picked the upper of your liking and come away cheaper.
BTW, hanks for the answer on the Velocity - it's down to that or the ALG - I'm not ready to drop $250 on a trigger quite yet. You said you ordered an H buffer already - have you looked at the A5 buffer system? There is a 6-position version (I think it is Vltor model Re-10) that fits most of the Magpul length stocks (all but the MOE, IIRC).
This post was edited on 12/22/15 at 9:27 am
Posted on 12/22/15 at 8:07 am to Ace Midnight
I understand the mechanical difference between and 1 and 2 stage trigger, but what are the advantages/disadvantages of each?
This is really the only thing (I have very limited AR knowledge /experience) that I can think of that would make a difference in how my AR will shoot. People mention different BCG's (I think the one that came in my PSA upper is fine), and obviously the handrail and furniture impact a lot in how the gun looks, but as far as firing feel, is the trigger the only thing that would affect that? Other than the actual type of AR (gas piston, carbine, etc.. )
eta: While im at it, i dont really understand the buffer system functionality. so to me, this is the stock... obviously there is more to it, theres a spring and buffer tube... What got me wondering is that I know there are specific buffers for specific guns, and when I just googled the A5 system, it mentions this is good for fine tuning your gun and was specifically requested by the marines... so what does this all do other than just provide a mounting place for the stock?
Sorry for the dumb questions, but always want to learn more. I pieced together my AR so I'm fairly familiar with how it all goes together.
This is really the only thing (I have very limited AR knowledge /experience) that I can think of that would make a difference in how my AR will shoot. People mention different BCG's (I think the one that came in my PSA upper is fine), and obviously the handrail and furniture impact a lot in how the gun looks, but as far as firing feel, is the trigger the only thing that would affect that? Other than the actual type of AR (gas piston, carbine, etc.. )
eta: While im at it, i dont really understand the buffer system functionality. so to me, this is the stock... obviously there is more to it, theres a spring and buffer tube... What got me wondering is that I know there are specific buffers for specific guns, and when I just googled the A5 system, it mentions this is good for fine tuning your gun and was specifically requested by the marines... so what does this all do other than just provide a mounting place for the stock?
Sorry for the dumb questions, but always want to learn more. I pieced together my AR so I'm fairly familiar with how it all goes together.
This post was edited on 12/22/15 at 8:13 am
Posted on 12/22/15 at 9:08 am to BoogerNuts
quote:
Bushmaster Patrolman for $600 cash
quote:
I will have put around $950 into it. How does this build sound to ya'll?
I'm sure you could find some deals, but I dont know how you are only putting $350 into the gun with all the parts listed.
BCM BCG $169.00
CTR STOCK $75.00
HANDGUARD $40.00
GRIP $20.00
TRIGGER GUARD $10.00
MBUS $60.00
BCM H BUFFER $23.00
VELOCITY TRIGGER $135.00 (your price)
TOTAL $532.00
For that price I would have just bought a BCM Lower for $395. And BCM KMR Upper for $598. Total under $1000 plus FFL. Damn fine rifle.
Posted on 12/22/15 at 9:20 am to chickman1313
quote:
I understand the mechanical difference between and 1 and 2 stage trigger, but what are the advantages/disadvantages of each?
Obviously there is more to a trigger than the number of stages - there is creep, break, reset - etc. However, what a 2-stage offers is a fine tuning "option" - you can press the trigger and reset, just as you would a single stage trigger. Or, you can slow down, trip the first stage and then carefully take a more prescise shot.
quote:
I just googled the A5 system, it mentions this is good for fine tuning your gun and was specifically requested by the marines... so what does this all do other than just provide a mounting place for the stock?
The buffer tube/lower receiver extension is where the weapon cycles in the lower receiver. All the block does is house the trigger and hold everything together. Once a round has been fired in the chamber/barrel, either the gas piston or impingement system drives the BCG rearward, into the receiver extension. This extension normally houses the buffer and spring. When this spring compresses fully, it forces the BCG forward to pick up the next round from the magazine and chamber it, readying the weapon to fire again.
And all of this marvelous engineering was done by Eugene Stoner and his team at Armalite almost 60 years ago. Problem is, that was engineered for a 20" barrel and a rifle length spring, and a somewhat lighter buffer. Without getting into all the gas system length (that is an upper receiver question - but it is related to your choice of buffer) and staying in the lower receiver - flash forward to the M4A1 carbine adopted by the U.S. military. It was, essentially, a cut down version of the M16A2, itself a 3rd iteration of a mil-spec, select fire version of the AR-15. The M4A1 restores fully automatic fire to the U.S. rifleman, as the M16A2 has 3-round burst available, only.
Shorter, collapsible stock, meant a shorter lower receiver extension and a shorter buffer spring. This makes the weapon somewhat more difficult to control and somewhat less reliable (all other things being equal) - and again without getting into bullet weights and "weak" or "hot" ammo.
The A5 is an attempt to restore rifle buffer reliability and control to the shorter, carbine length weapons, as it allows a rifle spring length in an extension that will accept many (not all, mind you) of the collapsible stocks that are all the rage now.
The "fine tuning" in their marketing material means that - you can adjust the weight of an A5 buffer for a number of ammo and gas length/barrel length situations to provide you with either more recoil control (heavier) or more reliability with lighter ammo (lighter) or otherwise find the buffer weight your particular weapon likes, as all are somewhat different, based on the BCG you select and other factors.
This post was edited on 12/22/15 at 10:54 am
Posted on 12/22/15 at 9:56 am to northern
Yea I hadn't factored the trigger into the total, I got all the magpul parts during Midways Magpul sale a couple weeks ago, and they had a coupon for another $15 off. Except the MBUS, Primary Arms had them for $30 when I ordered. After actually adding up my receipts so far it's $979, I was close I guess lol.
I've never done any kind of ground up build but that's what I'm going for on my next build sometime down the road. I plan on that one being a fairly high end gun and taking my time with it.
I've never done any kind of ground up build but that's what I'm going for on my next build sometime down the road. I plan on that one being a fairly high end gun and taking my time with it.
This post was edited on 12/22/15 at 10:03 am
Posted on 12/22/15 at 10:07 am to Ace Midnight
quote:
Ace Midnight
Thanks for taking the time to write all that out, makes sense now. I guess the only way to figure out what is best for your gun and your preferences is to try a few different ones out?
Posted on 12/22/15 at 10:25 am to chickman1313
quote:
I guess the only way to figure out what is best for your gun and your preferences is to try a few different ones out?
Buffer tuning, particularly. You can buy the full set of weights for an A5, but I think that's like $125, retail. If you had a whole rack, it might make sense - figure out the right weight for each one and order the right one to cut down on costs.
I'm still working through all the research on my trigger, then I'll complete the lower block. The receiver extension and buffer can be done as "Phase 2". I'm going to make a thread with pics when I start work in earnest. Hopefully it will help others as much as it has helped me, so far. It's a personality flaw, I'm curious about everything. Before I do something like build an AR-15 from scratch, I research every little detail to death.
Posted on 12/22/15 at 10:29 am to Ace Midnight
quote:
It's a personality flaw, I'm curious about everything. Before I do something like build an AR-15 from scratch, I research every little detail to death.
I'm the same way. Just bought a complete lower and about to pull the trigger on an upper. Just want to get my first AR completed so I can build my second from scratch.
Posted on 12/22/15 at 11:56 am to BoogerNuts
quote:
I guess I shouldn't say "re" stake. The stock / buffer / receiver (whatever you wanna call it) extension on this gun is not staked at all.
Zero reason to do this.
I have 3 in 5.56, 6.8 and .300aac. Built them all and as long as the nut is tightened properly you don't have to worry about it coming loose. Even if it does come loose the buffer tube isn't going to come unscrewed. The buffer retaining pin won't let the tube to back out.
Posted on 12/24/15 at 11:26 pm to Carson123987
quote:
Carson123987
Do you guys do any online sales? Bought my lower a few days ago and can't find a decent priced LPK to save my life. I'm not looking for anything special. Just a basic kit for my first build so I can get the basic understanding of putting one together.
Posted on 12/24/15 at 11:42 pm to finchmeister08
Check Primary Arms and Palmetto State Armory if Bowies won't ship. Just stay away from Anderson for LPKs.
Posted on 12/25/15 at 12:22 am to ChatRabbit77
There's a seller on eBay right now selling a palmetto lpk with the buffer tube assembly and stock for $99. I'm kinda skeptic if it though cause eBay has it listed as "Last One". Lol
Posted on 12/25/15 at 12:56 am to finchmeister08
You can get a Daniel Defense one from Primary Arms for cheap usually. That is what I would go with.
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