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re: Gating canals in houma area

Posted on 1/25/16 at 12:27 pm to
Posted by Dock Holiday
Member since Sep 2015
1747 posts
Posted on 1/25/16 at 12:27 pm to
quote:

These decisions were made with certain interests in mind.


THIS THIS THIS!!!

See Act 998 of the 1992 Regular Session. It was pushed by the Louisiana Landowners Association to protect their interest. Find out who the major players are in LLA

Go to page 13 of 16 in the link.
oldie but goodie
Posted by bayouvette
Raceland
Member since Oct 2005
5299 posts
Posted on 1/25/16 at 12:40 pm to
the latest issue arose not from people going into the marsh, but now the main canals that landowners have deer stands on. Too much boat chatter is what is being said and crew boats continually needing to slow down for fishermen.

I heard it was a conversation between the hunter and the fisherman.. fisherman was a jerk about it, so landowner may drive pilings in the front of the canal. This canal is directly off the intracoastal.
Posted by Barf
EBR
Member since Feb 2015
3727 posts
Posted on 1/25/16 at 12:43 pm to
quote:


Go to page 13 of 16 in the link.


There was some frickery afoot when 998 was past.

quote:


Editor's Note: The passage of Act 998 is the result OF several
years controversy that began with the U.S.Supreme Court
'decision of Philip Petroleum Co. v. Mississippi, 484 U.S.
469,108 S. Ct 791(1988). I0 Phillip the Court reaffirmed
that each state in its admission to the Union had been given
title to certain water bottoms which it held in trust far al1 its
citizens. The Court held that all tidelands regardless of
navigability were included in these public trust water bottoms.
The Court went on to say that the disposition of public trust
water bottoms after statehood would be controled by state
law. Louisiana law makes it clear that some tidal water
bottoms are within the public trust. For dher water bottoms,
those that are shallow, tidally influenced, and somewhat
removed from the open Gulf the picture is as murky as their
waters. Many of these water bottoms have, since 1812. been
simultaneously used by the general public, claimed by the
state, and claimed by private landowners. There has never
been a definitive pronouncement by the state of Louisiana on
the general status of shallow tidelands. Indeed, previous
legislation and judicial decisions affecting these water
bottoms have been ambiguous. The tenuous nature of
private claims and the fear that the Phillips decision would
tip the balance in favor of public ownership prompted
private landowners to marshal an effort to have the legislature
declare ow and for all hat inland non-navigable tidelands
are subject to private ownership. Through a long political
process during which proponents of the public interest
vigorously opposed the legislation, Act 998 was passed.
(For an in-depth discussion of the issues surrounding this
controversy see "The Public Trust Doctrine in Louisiana" by
J. Willkins and M. Wascom 52 Louisiana Law Review 861.
1W) TheactualeffectofAa998Femainstoheseen. While
it is intended to solidify private ownership claims to inland non-navigable tidal water bottoms, the legality of such a maneuver will most likely be ultimately decided by the courts. This Act, however, does have rhe potential of
severely restricting public access to inland tidal waters for fishing and other activities and denying the state significant mineral revenues.
Posted by AlxTgr
Kyre Banorg
Member since Oct 2003
84442 posts
Posted on 1/25/16 at 1:00 pm to
quote:

Nice try, but that is not a map of state claimed water bottoms. No such maps exists.

What? of course it does.
Posted by AlxTgr
Kyre Banorg
Member since Oct 2003
84442 posts
Posted on 1/25/16 at 1:01 pm to
quote:

Because a judge decided that a map from 1812 was obviously the best way to go.

It was.
Posted by Mung
Ba’on Rooj
Member since Aug 2007
9074 posts
Posted on 1/25/16 at 1:13 pm to
well, the marsh was not mapped with alot of detail in 1812(except for waterways then in use or settled upon), and even when the surveyors went in the 1830s and 40s, it was super difficult dragging those chains thru marshland, so the dispute over what was there and navigable in 1812 still continues. However, we know there weren't any canals there. Interesting debate over gubmint made canals across private property though.
Posted by AlxTgr
Kyre Banorg
Member since Oct 2003
84442 posts
Posted on 1/25/16 at 1:17 pm to
I'm going to start hunting power and pipeline right aways any time I want now.
Posted by Barf
EBR
Member since Feb 2015
3727 posts
Posted on 1/25/16 at 1:19 pm to
quote:

What? of course it does.


Don't be silly, there is no map. I want you to sit back and and ponder how patently ridiculous it sounds to suggest that the map we use came from some dude who paddled his canoe around with a 66ft piece of chain and a note book. It sounds absurd. Does that not sound like something out of a movie? What's next? Are you going to try to convince me that someone once lived in the belly of a whale?
Posted by Mung
Ba’on Rooj
Member since Aug 2007
9074 posts
Posted on 1/25/16 at 1:23 pm to
well, no map from 1812, but doesn't SONRIS attempt to extrapolate what was there in 1812? Based on whatever they have from then and the subsequent GLO surveys from the 1800s?

If OP can figure out the Township and Range info for the places that he is concerned about, he can look up the original survey at BLM GLO Search
This post was edited on 1/25/16 at 1:27 pm
Posted by Dock Holiday
Member since Sep 2015
1747 posts
Posted on 1/25/16 at 1:25 pm to
quote:

hunting power and pipeline right aways any time I want now.



I believe we come to the issue at hand. Because of the complexity of the subject we interchange land rights and water rights. What are water rights in most other states are actually land rights in Louisiana. What is 5 feet of water in Louisiana now was dry land in 1812 so is treated as land rights. Land rights and water rights are mutually exclusive, or should be, but Louisiana has found a way to confuse the two...

As seen by the statement I've quoted. By law, hunting a pipeline and running to the end of Bayou Gentilly in Delacroix are both trespassing...
Posted by AlxTgr
Kyre Banorg
Member since Oct 2003
84442 posts
Posted on 1/25/16 at 1:27 pm to
You're confusing the issues and continually bringing in coastal stuff in a canal thread.
quote:

Land rights and water rights are mutually exclusive, or should be, but Louisiana has found a way to confuse the two...
Why? Why should I let everyone have access to my pond?
Posted by AboveGroundPool
the basin
Member since Aug 2010
3780 posts
Posted on 1/25/16 at 1:30 pm to
We should resort back to a map of Toledo Bend in 1812
Posted by Barf
EBR
Member since Feb 2015
3727 posts
Posted on 1/25/16 at 1:30 pm to
quote:

well, no map from 1812, but doesn't SONRIS attempt to extrapolate what was there in 1812? Based on whatever they have from then and the subsequent GLO surveys from the 1800s?


Of course, SONRIS makes a noble effort and for the most part accurate. However, that will not do you any good when you have to appear before a judge for criminal trespass. Not that I think any DA will prosecute but the possibility of getting screwed by some sisterfricking small town sheriff is a very real possibility.
Posted by AlxTgr
Kyre Banorg
Member since Oct 2003
84442 posts
Posted on 1/25/16 at 1:31 pm to
quote:

We should resort back to a map of Toledo Bend in 1812

You thought that would have meaning here...
Posted by Dock Holiday
Member since Sep 2015
1747 posts
Posted on 1/25/16 at 1:32 pm to
quote:

confusing the issues and continually bringing in coastal stuff in a canal thread.


Maybe so, but it being in Houma makes me assume we are talking about costal canals, maybe I'm wrong on that assumption. The OP may be able to clarify
Posted by AlxTgr
Kyre Banorg
Member since Oct 2003
84442 posts
Posted on 1/25/16 at 1:33 pm to
The location of the canal is irrelevant.
Posted by AboveGroundPool
the basin
Member since Aug 2010
3780 posts
Posted on 1/25/16 at 1:34 pm to
No, not really, it's all absurd to me
Posted by AlxTgr
Kyre Banorg
Member since Oct 2003
84442 posts
Posted on 1/25/16 at 1:37 pm to
Posted by Barf
EBR
Member since Feb 2015
3727 posts
Posted on 1/25/16 at 1:37 pm to
quote:

The location of the canal is irrelevant.


I'm starting to think you're just screwing with people. No way are you that dense.

The property should have never been private in the first place. That is the entire debate.
Posted by Mung
Ba’on Rooj
Member since Aug 2007
9074 posts
Posted on 1/25/16 at 1:39 pm to
they have to prove you guilty beyond a reasonable doubt, which means proving that you were caught on a waterway that was not navigable in 1812. No DA is going to piddle with that. Mind you, when the landowner allows the sheriff to hunt there for free, you could get arrested alot, but prosecution is unlikely.

If you do get charged, i have a top notch expert up here who can use the GLO surveys placed over a LIDAR map to show that you were on a navigable waterway. $500/hr or so, but well worth it.
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