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Started By
Message
re: Boat Batteries
Posted on 8/4/25 at 3:58 pm to DownshiftAndFloorIt
Posted on 8/4/25 at 3:58 pm to DownshiftAndFloorIt
I guess it is time to swap over. Should i buy 1 36v battery or 3 12v?
2
Posted on 8/4/25 at 4:15 pm to DownshiftAndFloorIt
quote:Well, this is false.
They shouldn't be used for cranking batteries or critical electronics
Posted on 8/4/25 at 5:02 pm to AlxTgr
I know people that have lithium crank batteries and don’t seem to have any issues. But I also know people that have had issues with BMS lockout/etc and not being able to crank. Brand name lithium too, not cheap Chinese ones from Amazon.
I just like a “dumb” AGM/lead acid for crank battery because they’re basic/simple and just work (unless they die). Main reason I don’t use them for house batteries is really just so I don’t have to put in a DC/DC converter off AGM/LA crank battery.
I wouldn’t be opposed to a house battery being lithium, just takes a little more setting up and a few extra pieces of equipment .
I just like a “dumb” AGM/lead acid for crank battery because they’re basic/simple and just work (unless they die). Main reason I don’t use them for house batteries is really just so I don’t have to put in a DC/DC converter off AGM/LA crank battery.
I wouldn’t be opposed to a house battery being lithium, just takes a little more setting up and a few extra pieces of equipment .
Posted on 8/4/25 at 5:32 pm to CP3
quote:Lot's of lithium users on BBC, and haven't seen one case of that reported. Any of the cases involving Ionic? If not, what brands?
I know people that have lithium crank batteries and don’t seem to have any issues. But I also know people that have had issues with BMS lockout/etc and not being able to crank. Brand name lithium too, not cheap Chinese ones from Amazon
Posted on 8/5/25 at 9:09 am to AlxTgr
The Navy doesn't allow them to be used for that application due to the risk of the BMS disabling the battery. Lead acid is better for critical applications.
It doesn't matter for a bass boat because nothing is actually critical, but I would not use a lithium battery for cranking or bilge pump on any boat. The risk is small for us because we don't deal with super cold weather but the risk is there.
It doesn't matter for a bass boat because nothing is actually critical, but I would not use a lithium battery for cranking or bilge pump on any boat. The risk is small for us because we don't deal with super cold weather but the risk is there.
Posted on 8/5/25 at 9:44 am to SmokinBurger
1x 36 volt
Posted on 8/5/25 at 9:51 am to DownshiftAndFloorIt
quote:Your loss. One of the best things someone can do for a boat.
but I would not use a lithium battery for cranking or bilge pump on any boat.
quote:It's pretty much non-existent.
The risk is small
Posted on 8/5/25 at 10:13 am to DownshiftAndFloorIt
What’s BMS disabling a battery mean?
Posted on 8/5/25 at 10:24 am to WillFerrellisking
Longish but good video on the topic,
Posted on 8/5/25 at 10:32 am to AlxTgr
quote:
One of the best things someone can do for a boat.
The Navy and Coast Guard disagree. Engine manufacturers disagree. You save what, 20 pounds? vs a regular FLA battery and spend vastly more money.
quote:
It's pretty much non-existent.
I don't think I'd use BBC as my dataset on whether or not doing this is a good idea. By the time you account for everything necessary to do this the correct way you have more crap in the compartment than just a lead acid battery anyway.
In short, most people get away with it but it is dumb.
Reference ABYC E-13:
quote:
Here are seven updates and changes you need to know:
The battery must be installed exactly as per the manufacturer’s instructions.
The battery must have SAE, IEC, or UL testing certifications. This rules out most Chinese imported or knockoff batteries.
They have to be restrained very securely with no or little-to-no movement.
Lithium-ion batteries must use a battery management system (BMS) to keep them working within safety parameters.
LiFePO4 batteries must include a warning system for an impending shutdown condition. This is either a visual or audible alarm.
The manufacturer is responsible for providing information on the battery usage, proper installation, and the design parameters of the BMS. This is critical—you have to know how the BMS is going to react so you can design the rest of your system to work within those parameters.
The standards recommend alternative power sources for critical systems aboard the vessel.
Posted on 8/5/25 at 10:45 am to DownshiftAndFloorIt
quote:Mercury approves them. It's not all about weight. You'll spend less over the long haul. You'll never need to charge it again.
Engine manufacturers disagree. You save what, 20 pounds? vs a regular FLA battery and spend vastly more money.
quote:Where are these failures? It's dumb?
I don't think I'd use BBC as my dataset on whether or not doing this is a good idea. By the time you account for everything necessary to do this the correct way you have more crap in the compartment than just a lead acid battery anyway.
In short, most people get away with it but it is dumb.
You have idiotic takes here from time to time, but this one is the worst. You really don't know enough about this to comment. Posted on 8/5/25 at 10:49 am to WillFerrellisking
BMS = battery management system. It is an automated safety system built into the battery that disables it if it starts going stupid. It's to prevent the runaway burn-outs that people usually show videos of.
The batteries are perfectly safe now and the risk of them burning your whole world down because they got wet is nearly non-existent with any good LiPo4 battery. The risk is that if the BMS trips, the battery is completely disabled, so ideally you would have a way to transfer engine and other critical electronic power to another source built into the boat.
The batteries are perfectly safe now and the risk of them burning your whole world down because they got wet is nearly non-existent with any good LiPo4 battery. The risk is that if the BMS trips, the battery is completely disabled, so ideally you would have a way to transfer engine and other critical electronic power to another source built into the boat.
Posted on 8/5/25 at 10:53 am to WillFerrellisking
quote:
What’s BMS disabling a battery mean?
Lithium batteries have a battery management system (BMS) built in.
Think of basically a small internal computer to protect the batteries from thermal issues, over/under charging, balance issues, etc. If it detects a fault condition it “locks out” (internally disconnects) the battery output. They also can provide you with cool info like state of charge, temps, discharge/charge rate,etc on phone or MFD app via Bluetooth.
It’s a nice feature, but like anything that’s got a “computer” in it, it’s just another thing that can fail or cause problems.
If for whatever reason this lockout happens while engine is running, it can wreck your outboard charging system. It would be the same as turning perko off with engine running which is not typically something you want to do.
I’ve only seen a few of them lock out and cause an issue, and they were at the dock and due to bad temperature sensor or some other glitchy fault with BMS. So only issue they created was not being able to run boat until fixed. But if it happened offshore or out on the water, you’d probably be calling someone to tow you in if you can move your batteries around to start off a different one.
IMO it’s just a lot easier and more reliable to stick with AGM or Lead acid for a crank battery. A lot of people use lithium with no issues, and I’m glad it works for them. But it’s just not worth it to me. You’re adding more points of failure/complexity on something you depend on to get home. I just don’t really see any benefit with a lithium crank battery, especially on a single engine boat.You’re paying $$$ for more complexity just to save a little bit of size/weight.
Posted on 8/5/25 at 10:57 am to AlxTgr
quote:
You have idiotic takes here from time to time, but this one is the worst. You really don't know enough about this to comment.
You are going to hang your hat on BBC posts and anecdotes vs NAVSEA, USCG, ABYC, and marine engine manufacturers?
Yes, using lithium cranking batteries on a boat is stupid, and yes I am very much qualified to make that statement.
Posted on 8/5/25 at 11:16 am to AlxTgr
quote:
Where are these failures?
I’ve personally seen/worked on 3 boats that had issues with BMS
One had bad temp reading, keeping BMS locked out
Other 2 I didn’t really have time to diagnose. But essentially just had no sign of life whatsoever from BMS and it wouldn’t “wake up”. They just swapped them out for AGM because they didn’t want to deal with it and needed to get back on water.
I’m sure majority of people run them just fine without issues, and I’m glad they have had success. But most boats I run, own and/or work on need reliability more than convenience or cool features, so that’s why I tend to prefer LA or AGM when it comes to start battery.
Lithiums are absolutely great for trolling motors and (possibly) accessory loads though.
Posted on 8/5/25 at 11:29 am to DownshiftAndFloorIt
quote:Are you just ignoring mercury's approval?
You are going to hang your hat on BBC posts and anecdotes vs NAVSEA, USCG, ABYC, and marine engine manufacturers?
Posted on 8/5/25 at 11:35 am to CP3
quote:What brand batteries?
I’ve personally seen/worked on 3 boats that had issues with BMS
One had bad temp reading, keeping BMS locked out
quote:You are likely in a very different position from the OP and me and virtually all other bass boat owners.
But most boats I run, own and/or work on need reliability more than convenience or cool features, so that’s why I tend to prefer LA or AGM when it comes to start battery.
Posted on 8/5/25 at 11:35 am to CP3
quote:
Lithiums are absolutely great for trolling motors and (possibly) accessory loads though.
They are great for everything except cranking and safety-critical electronics (bilge pump, VHF, etc). I'd absolutely use one as a house battery on a bigger boat. The ability to accept really high charging amperage and discharge at rated voltage until death is awesome. Best thing ever for trolling motors and any other high-energy stuff.
For a bass boat the risk isn't super bad. Worst case is you get stranded far away from the truck or the boat sinks to the gunnel but you aren't going to die if you lose the cranking battery. There's just no real advantage to taking the risk. It costs vastly more money and if you include a means to transfer over to an auxiliary battery in the event of a BMS failure, that's more big arse cables and transfer switches and complications.
OR you can just use a regular ol FLA battery and change it out every 5 years and not worry about any of that. It doesn't take a big battery to reliably crank an outboard and keep the electronics running for a full day.
Posted on 8/5/25 at 11:44 am to DownshiftAndFloorIt
quote:Best cranking option available.
They are great for everything except cranking
quote:Likely false given the prices now. Have you priced a group 31 AGM that meet Merc's requirements lately? Not only is lithium not vastly more expensive, I think it's probably cheaper.
There's just no real advantage to taking the risk. It costs vastly more money
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