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re: AR 15 for beginner

Posted on 5/29/16 at 10:58 am to
Posted by Clames
Member since Oct 2010
18873 posts
Posted on 5/29/16 at 10:58 am to
quote:

Based on my experience and that of others, I have to disagree. I have broken in several rifles this way and at this point have several thousand rounds through a couple of them without cleaning (after initial cleaning) with none of the issues you mention.


I've got 18+ years in the military and a whole lot of understanding on how the AR rifles function, how they are designed,and why they were designed they way they are.

Your linked article starts off with a lie:

quote:

THE M16 WAS FIRST PROMOTED AS A GUN THAT NEEDED NO MAINTENANCE.


No, the M16 was never promoted as such. Mr. Stoner, in his specifications, made it clear the rifle would need less cleaning and would be less prone to malfunction-causing crud build-up than currently fielded designs. Not his fault the Army changed the specs and not the Army's fault DuPont couldn't supply the proper propellant for the ammo.

quote:

It has been lubed generously with Slip 2000 Extreme Weapons Lube (EWL).


quote:

We have run a number of guns to over 15,000 rounds without cleaning—or malfunctions—as long as they were kept well lubricated.



Yeah no shite. They could have used cheap ATF and gotten the same results too. None of that means the rifles aren't being damaged, are not undergoing excessive wear, or would be safe enough to stake a life on its continued operation. We used water from our canteens to flush out the receiver of the sand that would jam our rifles at Ft. Benning. Any fluid will keep the rifle functioning; motor oil, diesel fuel, water, CLP, bearing grease...I've seen them all. It will also turn the crud into an abrasive paste that will cause wear on parts that normally wouldn't see much fouling, leak onto ammunition in the magazines, and get transferred to the chamber where it can really cause problems. You, like the vast majority of AR owners/builders/accessory suppliers, don't know enough of the details to understand the 2nd and 3rd order effects of running these rifles dripping with lube. You don't understand that it causes the bolt to see over double the force it was designed see once that excess oil migrates into the chamber. You don't understand how that lube can carry abrasive carbon fouling down into the trigger group where unhardened or improperly heat treated surfaces will erode faster than intended causing potentially dangerous malfunctions. I'm right about every single thing I posted in reply to what you stated, I don't give a flying frick about some testimonial by a company hawking another company's products so gullible people will shell out their money for the latest gimmick.



This post was edited on 5/29/16 at 11:00 am
Posted by olgoi khorkhoi
priapism survivor
Member since May 2011
16327 posts
Posted on 5/30/16 at 2:12 pm to
Thanks for your service.

I'm not talking about using "any fluid", I am talking about one specific fluid. I am not talking about running it "dripping wet". Using it liberally could mean anything to anyone, but based on your depiction, I don't use much at all. The article was written by someone who runs a tactical shooting school and sees more rounds sent down range than 99.999% of shooters and soldiers. They torture tested their guns (one has over 50,000) rounds. I have run similar tests, I and others have run similar tests with varying amounts of ammo with similar results. I haven't run into the problems you are describing but maybe I am not running it dripping wet enough. Wet, to me, means a thin film, nothing more. I have never put the other fluids you mentioned on or in a rifle, and hope to never have to. I'm sure they would cause a multitude of problems over time.

Happy Hemorial Day, and again, thanks for your service.
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