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Started By
Message
re: 2010 2500 Duramax quickly approaching 100K....Mods
Posted on 1/22/13 at 9:12 pm to GREENHEAD22
Posted on 1/22/13 at 9:12 pm to GREENHEAD22
It can. Nothing is guaranteed but its possible. If something goes wrong with your drivetrain and you are chipped, Id say 99% of the time they will void your warranty and you get to pay out of pocket. Why would they want to eat the repair cost if they dont have to.
But on the other hand, if your radio goes out while chipped, they get to pay for that. They can only void what you replaced and what it directly alters. A lift kit voids the suspension, only. A programmer voids the drivetrain, only.
But on the other hand, if your radio goes out while chipped, they get to pay for that. They can only void what you replaced and what it directly alters. A lift kit voids the suspension, only. A programmer voids the drivetrain, only.
1
Posted on 1/22/13 at 9:16 pm to Ice Cream Sammich
Well I guess that scratches out my plans.
Posted on 1/22/13 at 9:20 pm to GREENHEAD22
I am waiting on my 6.2 to chip it. I know that gas motors dont have typically as many problems as oil burners but this is my first truck with the full warranty and I plan on keeping it. Come 60k, it will become a lot more fun to drive.
Posted on 1/22/13 at 9:24 pm to Ice Cream Sammich
If something breaks and you put it back to stock they can still tell you have been running a chip right?
Posted on 1/22/13 at 9:28 pm to GREENHEAD22
quote:With a programmer....sometimes yes, sometimes no. Chips used to be burned into the ECU so you can't take them out. I have no idea how they do it now though
If something breaks and you put it back to stock they can still tell you have been running a chip right?
My programmer can't be read by Ford. I can put the stock intake and exhaust back on there and is is all OEM as far as they can tell.
Posted on 1/22/13 at 9:28 pm to GREENHEAD22
This is where it gets tricky. Manufactures of the chips say no way in hell. Dealerships laugh and say that they can easily tell. I believe that the dealerships can easily tell if the coding has been changed or if there was ever anything else on the PCM.
That is a better question for somebody who works on the computers of these things.
That is a better question for somebody who works on the computers of these things.
Posted on 1/22/13 at 9:36 pm to GREENHEAD22
quote:
Been wanting to tune my new truck, will any mods void the warranty? I am wanting to do exhaust, intake and chip.
well yes, but maybe...
read up on the Magnuson Moss Warranty Act.
technically they have to prove the modification caused the problem requiring warranty work...but I wouldn't test that...but an intake and exhaust "shouldn't" exhaust may void your emissions warranty for the parts you replaced them with...
Chips...even plug in style that are inline in the electronics can now be detected even if removed by a thorough reading of the ECM/computer but a snapshot that is stored of the event surrounding the code that WILL be thrown...engine parameters that are "out of Spec" will be the red flag...
is this a gasser?
personally I don't think throwing money away for such little gain is a good investment, unless we are talking turbo charged engines, then programming will get you some moderate gains...
It's just my opinion though, so take it for what it's worth to you...if you want it and it makes you feel good, then by all means do it...
Posted on 1/22/13 at 9:41 pm to Pepperidge
quote:
technically they have to prove the modification caused the problem requiring warranty work...but I wouldn't test that...but an intake and exhaust "shouldn't" exhaust may void your emissions warranty for the parts you replaced them with...
Thats the problem. This isnt true. They say, No we void your warranty because of XYZ. You have to pay another mechanic and lawyer to fight this and prove that your aftermarket product did not cause the malfunction. It cost lots of time and money. They put 100% of the fault on you and you are responsible in proving if that is true or not.
Posted on 1/22/13 at 9:43 pm to Ice Cream Sammich
quote:
This is where it gets tricky. Manufactures of the chips say no way in hell. Dealerships laugh and say that they can easily tell. I believe that the dealerships can easily tell if the coding has been changed or if there was ever anything else on the PCM.
I've read many instances of ford finding out so I'm pretty sure they know
Don't know about other manufacturers
Ford figured it out after replacing plenty of 6.0s that were tuned and then returned as stock
Posted on 1/22/13 at 9:45 pm to Hammertime
quote:
My programmer can't be read by Ford. I can put the stock intake and exhaust back on there and is is all OEM as far as they can tell.
see my last post...they aren't stupid...parameters during an "event" tells all...they can also tell how many times the computer has been flashed and can tell if any of those flashes were not a GM or Ford(etc)factory calibration...
just a random example: say your truck is governed from to 119 mph and 4000rpm and shift points are set at certain points for certain gears... and your programmer/tuner eliminates the speed limiter and raises the rev limiter to say 5000rpm...if any event snapshots show you exceeding those set parameters, they will know...JMHO
Posted on 1/22/13 at 9:47 pm to Ice Cream Sammich
I am assuming the way that they can tell would be to check the history of all of the engine parameters. Other than that, I can't think of any way right now. I just can't think of a way that they could really leave a mark on anything once fully returned to stock.
My programmer stores 100% of the stock information. The first thing it does when you plug it in is spend 45 minutes reading it all. That is completely separate from the tuning mods. Switch it back to stock and it all goes. Once the aftermarket cracks all of the PCM/ECU codes, it should be easy for them to set it all back
I am reading that the dealership can tell by looking at your(Ford = Oasis Report) maintenance history. If the programmer's flash back to stock does not match with what they had on there in your Oasis report, they deny it. Say your programmer has the June 2010 program and you actually got it flashed at Ford with a December 2010 tune in 2011. They can see that the two engine mapping programs don't match
Guy from Diablo Tuners:
My programmer stores 100% of the stock information. The first thing it does when you plug it in is spend 45 minutes reading it all. That is completely separate from the tuning mods. Switch it back to stock and it all goes. Once the aftermarket cracks all of the PCM/ECU codes, it should be easy for them to set it all back
I am reading that the dealership can tell by looking at your(Ford = Oasis Report) maintenance history. If the programmer's flash back to stock does not match with what they had on there in your Oasis report, they deny it. Say your programmer has the June 2010 program and you actually got it flashed at Ford with a December 2010 tune in 2011. They can see that the two engine mapping programs don't match
Guy from Diablo Tuners:
quote:Let me bold this......Mine completely copies the stock file into the hard drive and on a SD card. It then takes one of those copies and modifies it, so when you want to go back, it just uploads the completely stock one back up.
If you are using a tuner that changes your calid when you flash your vehicle, you are asking for trouble. The right way to do things is to read the stock tune out of the vehicle, apply the changes to that stock file, and write it back. This way, only calibration data has changed, and there is NOTHING a dealership can see that would prove it had been tuned. If the stock tune was not restored, they'd have to read the PCM out with some tool (that dealers do not have) then send that read off to Dearborn to be compared in HEX to a known stock file, to see if there are any changes present. If the truck had been previously returned to stock, there is NO way for anyone to tell it had been tuned. Period.
We have all the same tools a tech has at the dealership, and then some. We would never release anything that left a big red flag saying "I have been tuned".
This post was edited on 1/22/13 at 9:50 pm
Posted on 1/22/13 at 9:50 pm to Pepperidge
Yea its a gas motor, was guessing to gain around 30 hp and hopefully 2-4 MPG.
Posted on 1/22/13 at 9:54 pm to GREENHEAD22
Thats asking a lot from a gas engine. Unless its the Ecoboost. I have the 6.2 and I am hoping for 30hp but with programmer, CAI, and full exhaust.
Posted on 1/22/13 at 9:55 pm to GREENHEAD22
From the company who made mine
Will your tuner void my dealer warranty?
Possibly, but not likely.
Lots of rumors surround the current situation as to if aftermarket tuning devices are detectable
in the new 6.4L Powerstroke Diesels. For most devices on the market, the answer to that
question is YES. Ford Motor Company has special algorithms in place within the factory
computers to detectthe download of a program from a non-Ford programming device; which
triggers the diagnostic troublecode "P167F", defined as "Non-OEM programming detected."
This code is only viewable with Ford dealer or Ford Engineering diagnostic equipment, and will
not be read or cleared by any other tuning device or diagnostic code reader on the market.
This code is also stored in multiple computer modules scattered about the vehicle, meaning
that "clearing" or resetting the engine controller alone will not force the code to go away.
Other in-line devices (tuning devices that plug into the engine harness connections rather
than being downloaded as a programmer) claim to be undetectable since there is no actual
download of a program through the computer system. However, this is not true, as the
factory computer(s) collect and store information from the engine in the form of
"freeze frames". These freeze-frame data collections WILL show evidence of the use of any
in-line tuning device even after the product is removed from the trucks. And unlike
previous model trucks upon which the computer can be "cleared" by the practice of
removing/unhooking the battery cables, all information on the 6.4L vehicles is stored in
"non-volatile" memory, meaning the information is stored permanently until overwritten.
A traditional "reset" cannot be performed, meaning the evidence of use of a in-line device
will be shown to any Ford dealer or Ford engineer for a very, very long time.
Our tuning devices use a proprietary process when saving the stock tune and downloading
our custom tuning to "emulate" the presence of a Ford factoryprogramming device. In
doing so, the presence of the "P167F" diagnostic code is prevented. Likewise, when a
vehicle is returned back to stock using our device, multiple computer modules are internally
reset to prevent and delete other tell-tale evidence of aftermarket tuning. This gives our
Spartan Phalanx programming device the highest level of undetectablilty available on the
market, helping to preserve your factory warranty and preventing warranty denial by Ford.
As Ford truck owners ourselves, our crew members share the concern about preserving
factory warranty and understand the stress involved when choosing an aftermarket device
in this respect. This is why we take every measure to protect our customers' confidentiality
and spend tremendous development effort to do so.
Will your tuner void my dealer warranty?
Possibly, but not likely.
Lots of rumors surround the current situation as to if aftermarket tuning devices are detectable
in the new 6.4L Powerstroke Diesels. For most devices on the market, the answer to that
question is YES. Ford Motor Company has special algorithms in place within the factory
computers to detectthe download of a program from a non-Ford programming device; which
triggers the diagnostic troublecode "P167F", defined as "Non-OEM programming detected."
This code is only viewable with Ford dealer or Ford Engineering diagnostic equipment, and will
not be read or cleared by any other tuning device or diagnostic code reader on the market.
This code is also stored in multiple computer modules scattered about the vehicle, meaning
that "clearing" or resetting the engine controller alone will not force the code to go away.
Other in-line devices (tuning devices that plug into the engine harness connections rather
than being downloaded as a programmer) claim to be undetectable since there is no actual
download of a program through the computer system. However, this is not true, as the
factory computer(s) collect and store information from the engine in the form of
"freeze frames". These freeze-frame data collections WILL show evidence of the use of any
in-line tuning device even after the product is removed from the trucks. And unlike
previous model trucks upon which the computer can be "cleared" by the practice of
removing/unhooking the battery cables, all information on the 6.4L vehicles is stored in
"non-volatile" memory, meaning the information is stored permanently until overwritten.
A traditional "reset" cannot be performed, meaning the evidence of use of a in-line device
will be shown to any Ford dealer or Ford engineer for a very, very long time.
Our tuning devices use a proprietary process when saving the stock tune and downloading
our custom tuning to "emulate" the presence of a Ford factoryprogramming device. In
doing so, the presence of the "P167F" diagnostic code is prevented. Likewise, when a
vehicle is returned back to stock using our device, multiple computer modules are internally
reset to prevent and delete other tell-tale evidence of aftermarket tuning. This gives our
Spartan Phalanx programming device the highest level of undetectablilty available on the
market, helping to preserve your factory warranty and preventing warranty denial by Ford.
As Ford truck owners ourselves, our crew members share the concern about preserving
factory warranty and understand the stress involved when choosing an aftermarket device
in this respect. This is why we take every measure to protect our customers' confidentiality
and spend tremendous development effort to do so.
quote:I wouldn't run a programmer. Intake/exhaust is fine, but not a programmer unless you bought it at a Ford dealership
GREENHEAD22
Posted on 1/22/13 at 9:58 pm to jimjackandjose
I got a spade tuner programmed by Duramax tuner. It cost about 750 I think. This pushed me to max HP for what my xmission can handle. I did straight pipes by MBRP. Good luck finding a shop to do that for you though. Most don't want to mess with removing cats and DPF. I pulled mine out and bolted the new one on and took it and had it welded up. Really don't need an Intake it's a waste of money. If you really want that extra power spend the money and upgrade the turbo and xmission.
Posted on 1/22/13 at 9:58 pm to Hammertime
it doesn't matter...they know how many times the ECm has been flashed and with what cal ID then they can compare the dates flashed with if a Ford dealer or Ford authorized warrant repair had to flash your computer on that date..it's way more detailed than what you think...
I can reload my vin as copied from the ECM and they will still know it's been flashed...there is no way around that...you'd have to prove who flashed it and why for all the flash dates stored...the big three lost too much money on bad warranty claims...trust me...they know...
I can reload my vin as copied from the ECM and they will still know it's been flashed...there is no way around that...you'd have to prove who flashed it and why for all the flash dates stored...the big three lost too much money on bad warranty claims...trust me...they know...
Posted on 1/22/13 at 9:58 pm to Hammertime
I want to believe the programmer companies but I dont. They are a million dollar company trying to sell their product. Ford, GM, and Ram are billion dollar companies trying to keep their product on the road. They have a lot more reasons to try and find the chipped trucks.
Posted on 1/22/13 at 10:03 pm to Hammertime
Its a GMC, will look into it but if I cant do the chip I dont see the point of doing the other two.
Posted on 1/22/13 at 10:08 pm to Danchase
Nick does damn good work, but there are better out there...(Idaho Rob, Ridgerunner Diesel etc.)but thats just my opinion...
Posted on 1/22/13 at 10:08 pm to Pepperidge
quote:That is the tricky part. Mine was flashed, I think 4 different times. Only one shows up on the Oasis report. From what I read, the individual dealerships cannot read how many times it has been flashed. They have to send it to Ford to do that and only will in the event of catastrophic failure
you'd have to prove who flashed it and why for all the flash dates stored
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