re: Why did Eisenhower and Truman have such a Problem with the USMC?

quote:

---

The country you dimwitted army dog

---

I'll take that as a compliment.

Well the constitution specifically says we shouldn't have a standing army so they both had it backwards.

quote:

---

You need to understand your history. Slow promotions in peacetime were the norm for the military even up until the late 1950s and early 1960s.

---

I wasn't speaking simply to rank, but assignment as well. And I wasn't saying he was a shitbird, or even that his early career was lackluster in an objective sense. I said "relatively speaking," to indicate that it was lackluster compared to the incredible heights he would eventually reach, which is interesting. He certainly wasn't some golden child that sailed through the organization to the top. But once he made his mark with Pershing, Connor, and later Marshall, things seemed to escalate significantly.

Also, I was incorrect in my prior reply, the things you cited were after the ten year mark, not twenty.

quote:

---

ETA: If I followed the thread correctly, you and GeauxxxTigers23 know each other IRL. If so, then let him clue you in. I kind of know what I am talking about.

---

I don't, but although I'm sure you do (I recall you were a field grade officer), you seem to have misinterpreted my point and took it as criticism rather just an observation.

quote:

---

You are correct,after a handful of Marines did the fighting, they brought in millions of Army troops to lay around and keep an eye on the monkeys.

---

Yeah....the casualty reports don't bare that out.

U.S. Army losses in the Pacific (1941-45):

41,592 killed; 145,706 wounded.

U.S. Marine losses in the Pacific (1941-45):

23,160 killed; 67,199 wounded.

quote:

---

But, it would have made Korea and Vietnam virtually impossible. States would have slowrolled sending regiments to the former and refused for the latter.

Maybe that's a good thing

---

Exactly. Without a large standing army our government would be much less apt to military adventurism like 15 year wars in Iraq, Afghanistan and Vietnam.

1st MARDIV owes Army TF Faith their lives for Chosin. arse whipping indeed.

Fair enough. I am a senior field grade officer (you know what that means) and an SSC graduate who really never gave a rip about strategic leadership in my younger years. Have done extensive reading since then and am absolutely fascinated on how senior leaders emerge and either succeed or fail. Very "Greek tragedy" in concept. Eisenhower was a product of his times. He was not particularly bright but he was driven and chafed at the limitations he faced. Only with our entry into World War II was he able to break free.

I am personally of the opinion that the system worked exceptionally well during the interwar years (maintaining a low end strength and a large, very poorly trained reserve). It kept us from being more "active" in our participation in world affairs. Some would say this isolationist sentiment got us into World War II (ignoring reality until it was too late). I would respectfully disagree. The role of the Army is to fight and win our Nation's wars. But war should be the last resort. I think we got it right.

/rant off

quote:

---

1st MARDIV owes Army TF Faith their lives for Chosin. arse whipping indeed.

---

1st MARDIV doesn't owe their lives to TF Faith. If anything, the surviving members of TF Faith owe their lives to Marine Air. That's not to say they didn't fight bravely, because they did. For a long time it was assumed that they had fought cowardly because they retreated back to Marine lines without their equipment or individual weapons. A fact that would have been lost to history had Marine historians not researched the matter and push for them to be awarded the Navy Unit Citation. The Army never made an attempt to vindicate them.

quote:

---

quote:
Little known fact: there were more U.S. Army personnel involved in the Pacific War than there were Marines.

You are correct,after a handful of Marines did the fighting, they brought in millions of Army troops to lay around and keep an eye on the monkeys.

---

That's not even close to being true. Yes the Marines had their share and then some of hard fighting in the Pacific, but so did the Army.

You want to know the difference between the Army and the Marine Corps?

Aggressiveness. The Marine mindset and culture is just more aggressive than the Army. I never practiced a break contact drill in the Marines, not once. I don't think it's even in the Marine Infantry Manual. I've done it a lot since I joined the army. We actually practice running away.