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Started By
Message
re: What is a covenant marriage, and how did Louisiana come to have them?
Posted on 8/21/15 at 2:07 pm to Artie Rome
Posted on 8/21/15 at 2:07 pm to Artie Rome
quote:
Most educated people that get married, stay married.
Most people [period] that get married stay married.
0
Posted on 8/21/15 at 2:08 pm to therick711
I actually wanted to get a covenant marriage when I got married, but you have to go to the notary with the priest and the whole thing is a big pain in the arse so we said forget it. It is a terribly impractical and frankly silly concept. And that is from somebody who actually agrees with the idea in theory.
Posted on 8/21/15 at 2:11 pm to JETigER
quote:
why can't divorce be illegal?
no shite. if the Bible is the basis for queers not getting married, Jesus Himself said divorce was wrong unless the woman was sleeping around. Now that i am divorced, I firmly believe no one should be allowed to get divorced anymore. Suck it up, people. That includes you, recently married gheys.
A covenent marriage is waaaay better than your JoP marriage, kinda like Baptists are better than Catholics.
Posted on 8/21/15 at 2:12 pm to Evolved Simian
The legislator who authored the bill back then is now the head of the Family Research Council in DC: LINK.
Posted on 8/21/15 at 2:15 pm to Evolved Simian
For most practical purposes, it just opts in to the old pre-"no fault" laws - in other words, very similar to Louisiana divorce law from the 1970s and before.
It also makes it harder to get married under the provisions, as you have to go through pre-marriage counseling sessions.
And if you're already married, you can convert your non-convenant marriage to a covenant one, as Mrs. Midnight and I did many years ago.
It also makes it harder to get married under the provisions, as you have to go through pre-marriage counseling sessions.
And if you're already married, you can convert your non-convenant marriage to a covenant one, as Mrs. Midnight and I did many years ago.
Posted on 8/21/15 at 2:18 pm to Ace Midnight
quote:
as Mrs. Midnight and I did many years ago.
What's the perceived benefit?
Posted on 8/21/15 at 2:19 pm to Ace Midnight
Gov Jindal has a covenant marriage
Marriage
Marriage
Posted on 8/21/15 at 2:20 pm to Ace Midnight
I will take this opportunity to continue to fight stupid statistics that keep getting repeated but aren't and have never been true.
To Whom It May Concern:
The U.S. doesn't have a 50% divorce rate. That number was originally derived as a forecast in the 1970s by opponents of no fault divorce. Those people speculated that no fault divorce would lead to a 50% divorce rate.
In order to justify this stupid projection for opposite purposes (to weaken marriage by making people think that it is impossible to have a workable one), people who don't understand math sprang into action. The formula these morons used was to take all divorces in a given year and compare them with all marriages in that year. That's not how divorce or marriages work. The correct way to figure out the divorce rate is to take the number of divorces and the number of total marriages without regard to a year. That number is much, much smaller.
According to the Census Bureau, 72% of people are still married to their first spouse. Within the other 28% are widows and widowers, so the rate has to be below 28%. The divorce rate is somewhere around maybe 15%.
Also, they did a study, if you take out serial divorcers (people who suck at marriage) the divorce rate is minuscule. This is justifiable because they skew the results. People who never get a divorce only count once. People who serially get divorces get to get counted plenty of times. A statistical anomaly that should be accounted for.
END PSA
To Whom It May Concern:
The U.S. doesn't have a 50% divorce rate. That number was originally derived as a forecast in the 1970s by opponents of no fault divorce. Those people speculated that no fault divorce would lead to a 50% divorce rate.
In order to justify this stupid projection for opposite purposes (to weaken marriage by making people think that it is impossible to have a workable one), people who don't understand math sprang into action. The formula these morons used was to take all divorces in a given year and compare them with all marriages in that year. That's not how divorce or marriages work. The correct way to figure out the divorce rate is to take the number of divorces and the number of total marriages without regard to a year. That number is much, much smaller.
According to the Census Bureau, 72% of people are still married to their first spouse. Within the other 28% are widows and widowers, so the rate has to be below 28%. The divorce rate is somewhere around maybe 15%.
Also, they did a study, if you take out serial divorcers (people who suck at marriage) the divorce rate is minuscule. This is justifiable because they skew the results. People who never get a divorce only count once. People who serially get divorces get to get counted plenty of times. A statistical anomaly that should be accounted for.
END PSA
Posted on 8/21/15 at 2:23 pm to Artie Rome
quote:
Most educated people that get married, stay married.
Actually i would argue uneducated people are less likely to get married to begin with
Posted on 8/21/15 at 2:24 pm to Big Scrub TX
quote:
What's the perceived benefit?
A mutual, contractual obligation to do everything reasonably possible to save the marriage before instituting legal proceedings to end it.
Rather than taking the position, "Contracts are made to be broken" as is the business philosophy and treating marriage like a timeshare condominium purchase going into it.
Posted on 8/21/15 at 2:26 pm to Mung
quote:
A covenent marriage is waaaay better than your JoP marriage, kinda like Baptists are better than Catholics
You had a great troll going, but I guess you ran out of steam and this uncamoflauged hook came out
Posted on 8/21/15 at 2:28 pm to Ace Midnight
quote:
A mutual, contractual obligation to do everything reasonably possible to save the marriage before instituting legal proceedings to end it.
Rather than taking the position, "Contracts are made to be broken" as is the business philosophy and treating marriage like a timeshare condominium purchase going into it.
So if you hadn't converted, you would have considered yourself de facto to have been in the "contracts are made to be broken" mindset?
Posted on 8/21/15 at 2:30 pm to ksayetiger
quote:
Actually i would argue uneducated people are less likely to get married to begin with
That doesn't counter my statement.
Posted on 8/21/15 at 2:31 pm to Big Scrub TX
quote:
So if you hadn't converted, you would have considered yourself de facto to have been in the "contracts are made to be broken" mindset?
It must have taken some mental gymnastics to draw that conclusion from what is stated in the quoted portion.
Posted on 8/21/15 at 2:33 pm to Big Scrub TX
quote:
So if you hadn't converted, you would have considered yourself de facto to have been in the "contracts are made to be broken" mindset?
Kind of. With the caveat that covenant marriages were not available when we got married in the first place. We took the opportunity of the change in law when we celebrated our 10th Anniversary and converted at that time.
I'm saying that everyone who knowingly chooses "regular" marriage contract over covenant in Louisiana is, at least initially, thinking about how they're going to get out of that marriage. But, most people don't know about it.
(There is no religious text in the law itself - you don't have to have a particular faith, or any faith, but finding a purely secular counselor for the sessions might be tougher.)
Posted on 8/21/15 at 2:34 pm to lsu2006
quote:
Only like 1% of marriages are covenant marriages.
Well shite..I'm a 1%'er at something!
Posted on 8/21/15 at 2:35 pm to therick711
quote:
It must have taken some mental gymnastics to draw that conclusion from what is stated in the quoted portion.
Perhaps I wasn't clear in my question to him: I was asking to HIM for HIS marriage what was HIS perceived benefit.
Posted on 8/21/15 at 2:36 pm to Big Scrub TX
quote:
Perhaps I wasn't clear in my question to him: I was asking to HIM for HIS marriage what was HIS perceived benefit.
FTR - Big Scrub - I believe I understood your question and it appeared clear to me. Hope my answers are as clear.
Posted on 8/21/15 at 2:37 pm to Ace Midnight
quote:
FTR - Big Scrub - I believe I understood your question and it appeared clear to me. Hope my answers are as clear.
No, not really. I'm surprised to hear you say (correct me if I'm misinterpreting) that you needed the law in order to fell a certain way about your marriage.
(Feel free not to answer, I'm just legitimately surprised to hear you say what I think you said.)
Posted on 8/21/15 at 2:44 pm to Big Scrub TX
quote:
I'm surprised to hear you say (correct me if I'm misinterpreting) that you needed the law in order to fell a certain way about your marriage.
I think you are misinterpreting. Symbolic gestures take a lot of heat, but there is power in symbolism. Choosing a course of action (in this case, covenant marriage) demonstrates a certain amount of resolve. The pleasant reality of this process is that it is difficult. Mrs. Midnight and I eloped - it literally took 2 hours over 2 days, all in.
Not the conversion to covenant - that was many hours of work over several weeks - and at least got us thinking about the committment we were already living and breathing every day.
So, I would disagree with the law - IF it were something that could be impulsively entered. But it isn't.
As it is - we have far too many easy marriages, impulsively entered, and (while the divorce lawyers and courts love the business) even the "no fault" divorces are expensive and time-consuming. Somehow just saying, out loud, in front of everyone, "We really want to avoid that if at all possible" can only work to strengthen a bond, I would think.
Certainly can't hurt.
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