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re: What is /r/TheRedPill?
Posted on 12/31/14 at 11:49 am to kingbob
Posted on 12/31/14 at 11:49 am to kingbob
I don't think our culture confuses any of these things.
Is it "classic male behavior" or "just good ole male aggression" to stop suddenly in the middle of the road, exit your vehicle, and scream at someone in the car behind you. I saw this happen on Carrollton the other day. I would call this "class rudeness," and I don't see it being particularly discouraged in society. On the contrary, I see rage being on the rise, especially on account of the internet.
Where do you see confidence confused with narcissism? There's certainly plenty of narcissism out there. I also see lots of successful people acting confidently. They aren't discouraged; they are encouraged to be confident. They were rewarded with success.
I don't remotely see the connection between failure and discrimination.
Again, this is just nothing like my experience. Maybe it's because the vast majority of my many male friends (from diverse backgrounds) are successful people in stable relationships.
The fundamental confusion is this: the theory of the "decline of the male" is itself a symptom of a prosperous, materialistic, advertising-suffused and hence spoiled society, a symptom you are misdiagnosing as a cause.
Is it "classic male behavior" or "just good ole male aggression" to stop suddenly in the middle of the road, exit your vehicle, and scream at someone in the car behind you. I saw this happen on Carrollton the other day. I would call this "class rudeness," and I don't see it being particularly discouraged in society. On the contrary, I see rage being on the rise, especially on account of the internet.
Where do you see confidence confused with narcissism? There's certainly plenty of narcissism out there. I also see lots of successful people acting confidently. They aren't discouraged; they are encouraged to be confident. They were rewarded with success.
I don't remotely see the connection between failure and discrimination.
quote:
This leads to a culture filled with men who are timid, overly accommodating, entitled, and lack self-esteem while having no clue as to how to attain anything they desire. All they know is that they deserve it, and what they have been taught to do isn't working.
Again, this is just nothing like my experience. Maybe it's because the vast majority of my many male friends (from diverse backgrounds) are successful people in stable relationships.
The fundamental confusion is this: the theory of the "decline of the male" is itself a symptom of a prosperous, materialistic, advertising-suffused and hence spoiled society, a symptom you are misdiagnosing as a cause.
1
Posted on 12/31/14 at 11:50 am to kingbob
quote:
Sometimes, a little aggressiveness is necessary.
rational aggression is the key to life
greatest lesson poker taught me
quote:
This leads to a culture filled with men who are timid, overly accommodating, entitled, and lack self-esteem while having no clue as to how to attain anything they desire. All they know is that they deserve it, and what they have been taught to do isn't working.
well, until they meet the domineering woman who is there to tell the man how to act. a regular debra baronne or jill taylor
Posted on 12/31/14 at 11:52 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
that's a big part of the PUA/TRP philosophy that i found important to teach people. cast a wide net and you'll get more fish
the new socialization that men are supposed to invest in individual females when courting is very feminine (nesting). not only does this personalize failure, it becomes a much bigger failure b/c you've lost all your investment if it doesn't work out.
Everything about this is so fricking true and that is honestly one of the biggest takeaways from PUA stuff.
Posted on 12/31/14 at 11:52 am to SlowFlowPro
Now you are just confusing manliness with class interest.
Other people want a piece of the pie. That means more competition. That means more manliness, right?
Other people want a piece of the pie. That means more competition. That means more manliness, right?
Posted on 12/31/14 at 11:53 am to Bayou Sam
quote:
Is it "classic male behavior" or "just good ole male aggression" to stop suddenly in the middle of the road, exit your vehicle, and scream at someone in the car behind you.
that's irrationality. you're arguing an absurd example to attempt to invalidate the point
quote:
Maybe it's because the vast majority of my many male friends (from diverse backgrounds) are successful people in stable relationships.
i'd also imagine they're betas in relationships with dominant females, believing they're fighting the good fight against patriarchy
Posted on 12/31/14 at 11:56 am to Bayou Sam
quote:
Other people want a piece of the pie. That means more competition. That means more manliness, right?
if it's a fair fight, sure
if one side "competes" by using an outside force (likely government) to slant the playing field, it's not a competition
also, nothing prevents women from being in tech. they just have to "buy in" to the culture. this argument is about trying to change the culture of that industry to cater to women. that's irrational and a signal of the problem
Posted on 12/31/14 at 11:56 am to SlowFlowPro
No, I'm pointing out that aggression, rage, recklessness, rational aggression, courage, cowardice exist all over the place--just as they always have and always will.
The alpha / beta stuff screams victimization and narcissism.
quote:
i'd also imagine they're betas in relationships with dominant females
The alpha / beta stuff screams victimization and narcissism.
Posted on 12/31/14 at 11:59 am to Bayou Sam
quote:
No, I'm pointing out that aggression, rage, recklessness, rational aggression, courage, cowardice exist all over the place--just as they always have and always will.
so you're saying that aggression is a trait found as often in females as males?
we did not evolve with that paradigm
quote:
The alpha / beta stuff screams victimization and narcissism.
it's neither. it's just a simple way to discuss high value/low value people and traits, especially with internalization of those traits
Posted on 12/31/14 at 12:04 pm to SlowFlowPro
I think anyone can be trained to be aggressive. Contemporary anthropologists and biologists do not argue, as you seem to be here, that "our nature" was determined by survival instincts developed in early human culture.
In that case, it's pseudo-sociology. "High value" people often have very different traits. People who have typical alpha virtues in one situation can completely fail in another. This happens especially often when their friends get older and more mature, and begin to lost patience with both the alpha and the person obsessed with alpha-ness.
Tbh, I've never met a person into the alpha/beta stuff that wasn't basically a nerd.
quote:
it's neither. it's just a simple way to discuss high value/low value people and traits, especially with internalization of those traits
In that case, it's pseudo-sociology. "High value" people often have very different traits. People who have typical alpha virtues in one situation can completely fail in another. This happens especially often when their friends get older and more mature, and begin to lost patience with both the alpha and the person obsessed with alpha-ness.
Tbh, I've never met a person into the alpha/beta stuff that wasn't basically a nerd.
Posted on 12/31/14 at 12:04 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:
also, nothing prevents women from being in tech. they just have to "buy in" to the culture. this argument is about trying to change the culture of that industry to cater to women. that's irrational and a signal of the problem
Exactly. It's like fat people convincing the army to lower the standards for just them to pass boot camp. They could not pass before, so rather than compete on a level playing field, they found a way to change the terrain to give them an advantage. Women have been slowly doing this to men since the early 1970s just as minorities have slowly done this to whites over the same time period.
Posted on 12/31/14 at 12:10 pm to Bayou Sam
quote:
I think anyone can be trained to be aggressive.
trained? sure
we're talking about innate characteristics from millions of years of evolution, though. "instinct" if you will
quote:
Contemporary anthropologists and biologists do not argue, as you seem to be here, that "our nature" was determined by survival instincts developed in early human culture.
some do. some don't. largely falls on ideological grounds, as with most of the soft sciences
quote:
"High value" people often have very different traits. People who have typical alpha virtues in one situation can completely fail in another.
like what, exactly?
quote:
This happens especially often when their friends get older and more mature, and begin to lost patience with both the alpha and the person obsessed with alpha-ness.
what are you talking about?
what do you think "alpha" means? i have this idea that you have a very skewed idea of what "alpha" means
Posted on 12/31/14 at 12:14 pm to kingbob
it's a great example of what i'm trying to say. instead of saying "well men are just more drawn to that industry for whatever reason", the SJWs claim there must be a flaw in the industry that has to be fixed to be more appealing to all sexes
and they try to bring up race, which is awesome, b/c tech is OVER-represented by minorities
and they try to bring up race, which is awesome, b/c tech is OVER-represented by minorities
Posted on 12/31/14 at 12:19 pm to broeho
quote:
the new socialization that men are supposed to invest in individual females when courting is very feminine (nesting). not only does this personalize failure, it becomes a much bigger failure b/c you've lost all your investment if it doesn't work out.
I actually agree with this a ton.
My parents always thought the dating world I grew up in was strange compared to the way they grew up. It was nothing when they were young to get asked on a date and say, "Oh, I'm sorry, I already have a date with Billy tonight. What about Saturday?"
Today, that would never happen. Go on a date, and the majority of men (AND WOMEN) assume that means you now owe that person something. Maybe not 100% commitment, but try telling someone you're on your 2nd-3rd date with that you have a date with someone else the next day and see how they react.
This post was edited on 12/31/14 at 12:20 pm
Posted on 12/31/14 at 12:21 pm to SlowFlowPro
There is no innately "male" trait of "aggressiveness" that "modern society" people out of people. To say otherwise signals a failure to observe people properly, and bad science and bad philosophy.
No scientist or philosopher thinks that the "real, natural human" this or that was found in early human culture. This is just a popular notion reinforced by pseudo-science like the paleo diet.
I'm going with your def of alpha as "high value". Some "high value" bosses are gentle, some severe, some great with the big picture, some better at interpersonal communication. I'm not going to go through every human trait, but you get the picture.
As any student of history can tell you, there's not one set of traits that makes a good leader, or a good general, or a captain of industry, or a leading expert in X field, or whatever.
No scientist or philosopher thinks that the "real, natural human" this or that was found in early human culture. This is just a popular notion reinforced by pseudo-science like the paleo diet.
I'm going with your def of alpha as "high value". Some "high value" bosses are gentle, some severe, some great with the big picture, some better at interpersonal communication. I'm not going to go through every human trait, but you get the picture.
As any student of history can tell you, there's not one set of traits that makes a good leader, or a good general, or a captain of industry, or a leading expert in X field, or whatever.
Posted on 12/31/14 at 12:27 pm to Bayou Sam
quote:
This is just a popular notion reinforced by pseudo-science like the paleo diet.
whaaaaaaaaaaaaaat?
what did paleo do to you?
i'm eating bread for lunch, so don't think i'm a paleo-adherer
quote:
As any student of history can tell you, there's not one set of traits that makes a good leader, or a good general, or a captain of industry, or a leading expert in X field, or whatever.
confidence and rational aggression are necessary
Posted on 12/31/14 at 12:29 pm to LouisianaLady
quote:
Maybe not 100% commitment, but try telling someone you're on your 2nd-3rd date with that you have a date with someone else the next day and see how they react.
I think this is something that started with women and then was adopted by men. Men would date multiple women at the same time and women would get appalled. So guys started pulling the same stunt on the women dating multiple men and it became a major no-no.
Too many people these days assume that A "date" means that people are "datING" when that couldn't be further from the truth. This is what fosters this culture of serial monogamy that is so prevalent. Prior, people would by polyamourous until they found one to stick with and would become monogamous for as long as that relationship worked for them. If that relationship fizzled, then the cycle would begin anew.
I sometimes think that this generation is so worried about judgement from others and insecure that they fear being alone. So they jump "all in" from one relationship to the next like tween girls who are like totally in LOVE with a different boy every other day. They do so because they are so afraid to be alone, so desperate to be alone, that they feel they must commit immediately and fully to the next thing that comes along.
This is indicative of people who allow their self worth to be dictated based off of their amorous relationships. If you only feel as if you are as good as the woman you're under, you're doing it wrong, and you will likely have a life filled with heartache and sadness until you realize that true happiness comes from within.
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