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Posted on 8/31/16 at 10:58 am to brooksbabino
quote:
That being said, if the universe DID have a beginning and you appeal to this "prime mover" - who or what created the prime mover? Surely something more powerful and complex had to be there before the prime mover to create said prime mover? The argument has the infinite regress problem, unless you engage in special pleading.
Precisely.
If the universe needed a cause because all things need a cause, then the prime mover needed one too. But if you're willing to suggest the prime mover did not, then why not the universe itself?
Posted on 8/31/16 at 11:00 am to Heathens
Idk what happens but there has to be something after otherwise what is the point of people being born handicapped. Like missing arms and legs or just not there mentally
Posted on 8/31/16 at 11:01 am to Lionnation1993
quote:Wtf?
Idk what happens but there has to be something after otherwise what is the point of people being born handicapped. Like missing arms and legs or just not there mentally
Posted on 8/31/16 at 11:01 am to Heathens
quote:
What happens when we die?
No one knows, which makes it that much more interesting.
Posted on 8/31/16 at 11:04 am to StrongBackWeakMind
They get a free pass to heaven baw
Posted on 8/31/16 at 11:07 am to GeauxTigerTM
quote:
If the universe needed a cause because all things need a cause, then the prime mover needed one too. But if you're willing to suggest the prime mover did not, then why not the universe itself?
isn't that essentially the genesis of the question at hand? I'm not sure that we as a species will ever have the capacity to scientifically answer the causation question. part of the issue, I think at least, is we can't get past the desire to transpose our human idea of what "time" is
eta: not even just a human idea. more so that our planet/solar system does have a rough time table, so it's simply the evidence that we've been given
This post was edited on 8/31/16 at 11:10 am
Posted on 8/31/16 at 11:08 am to RogerTheShrubber
quote:
No one knows, which makes it that much more interesting.
Yep! Knowing things is great...but NOT knowing a thing and searching for the answer really is more fun.
That's kind of why I'm not sure what to do with folks who think they have all the answers and are advocating no longer searching, or that since some questions may always remain out of reach the search for their answer is not worthwhile.
Posted on 8/31/16 at 11:12 am to WinnPtiger
quote:
isn't that essentially the genesis of the question at hand?
I think you could argue it is. What I'm saying, is that since this may actually be one of those questions that will remain out of our reach (due to issues of instrumentation, or time, or distance, etc) suggesting, "Welp...therefore there has to be the Prime Mover and that Prime Mover is the God of The Bible" seems silly to me. Not knowing an answer doesn't make ALL possible answers equally as likely...regardless of how warm and fuzzy they might make some.
FWIW, I've basically heard William Lane Craig attempt this slight of hand on many occasions...
Posted on 8/31/16 at 11:19 am to GeauxTigerTM
oh I agree completely. I'm not overly religious, but I'm also not a scientist
so naturally I'm skeptical of the big bang theory. I find the explanation somewhat plausible, but inherently incomplete. at least with respect to what is being discussed here

This post was edited on 8/31/16 at 11:20 am
Posted on 8/31/16 at 11:19 am to Heathens
If you are a Christian when you die. You change into your spiritual body. Christians don't die they just change. Read 1Corithians chapter 15. And another good chapter is John chapter 17. You are right about most of what you already know.
Posted on 8/31/16 at 11:20 am to GeauxTigerTM
quote:
FWIW, I've basically heard William Lane Craig attempt this slight of hand on many occasions..
He argues for the existence of the Christian God based off of an argument for general theism?
Posted on 8/31/16 at 11:30 am to DanMullins4Life
WLC uses the kalam cosmological argument to justify theism.
Posted on 8/31/16 at 11:41 am to Heathens
Well no one knows for sure, but the last few years I've been wondering about God, the afterlife etc. I was raised Catholic, but in my adult life have become pretty much non religious. I do kinda still believe in a higher power but I also kinda don't. I wonder if future civilizations will look back at current religion like we do at Greek Mythology. So I'm not sure if I do actually believe in God, or if I'm just afraid not to. I guess I'm all mixed up lol. My heart wants to believe in heaven and the afterlife, but my head wanders if religion was created to explain things that couldn't be explained at the time...plus to try and stop people from being out of control.
Posted on 8/31/16 at 11:58 am to Heathens
"Only thing that's scarier than dying is not dying at all."
I believe and I hope that it is simply lights out. The end of consciousness. Because the thought of ETERNAL life is absolutely terrifying.
When I was maybe 12 or 13 I was in church waiting to give confession and that thought struck me and just shook my core. I had been taught about eternal life in heaven, but had never thought about what that meant in real terms. Eternal, as in FOREVER, as in IT NEVER STOPS. You can do EVERYTHING an INFINITE number of times. Think about that. FOREVER. It never stops. The thought horrified me.
When I was in college I read A History of the World in 10 1/2 Chapters by Julian Barnes. The last chapter dealt with this. The absurdity of "eternal life." There was no answer in there, there couldn't be, but it was somewhat comforting to find someone else had thought about it. You can read that chapter here (excerpt below).
I believe and I hope that it is simply lights out. The end of consciousness. Because the thought of ETERNAL life is absolutely terrifying.
When I was maybe 12 or 13 I was in church waiting to give confession and that thought struck me and just shook my core. I had been taught about eternal life in heaven, but had never thought about what that meant in real terms. Eternal, as in FOREVER, as in IT NEVER STOPS. You can do EVERYTHING an INFINITE number of times. Think about that. FOREVER. It never stops. The thought horrified me.
When I was in college I read A History of the World in 10 1/2 Chapters by Julian Barnes. The last chapter dealt with this. The absurdity of "eternal life." There was no answer in there, there couldn't be, but it was somewhat comforting to find someone else had thought about it. You can read that chapter here (excerpt below).
quote:
I think it was the golf that finally made me turn to Margaret for some explanations. There was no doubt about it, over the months and years I played that lovely, lush course with its little tricks and temptations (how many times I put the ball in the water at the short eleventh!), my game improved no end. I said as much one day to Severiano, my regular caddy: ‘My game has improved no end.’ He agreed, and it was not until later, between dinner and sex, that I began to reflect on what I’d said. I had opened up on the course with a 67, and gradually my score was coming down. A while ago I was shooting a regular 59, and now, under cloudless skies, I was inching down to the low 50S. I could drive 350 yards without trouble, my pitching was transformed, my putts rattled into the hole as if drawn by a magnet. I could see my target score coming down through the 40s, then – a key psychological moment this – breaking the barrier of 36, that’s to say two strokes a hole average, then coming down through the 20S. My game has improved no end, I thought, and repeated the words no end to myself. But that’s, of course, exactly what it couldn’t do: there had to be an end to my improvement. One day I would play a round of golf in 18 shots, I’d buy Severiano a couple of drinks, celebrate later with sturgeon and chips and sex – and then what? Had anyone, even here, ever played a golf course in 17 shots?
Posted on 8/31/16 at 12:19 pm to Heathens
quote:
What happens when we die?
we will never know.
Posted on 8/31/16 at 12:40 pm to GeauxTigerTM
quote:
GeauxTigerTM
You are all in this thread. But you don't believe in Jesus right?
Posted on 8/31/16 at 12:42 pm to GeauxTigerTM
quote:
If the universe needed a cause because all things need a cause, then the prime mover needed one too. But if you're willing to suggest the prime mover did not, then why not the universe itself?
I believe the argument would be something like eventually, you would have to arrive at an uncaused first cause.
Posted on 8/31/16 at 12:42 pm to rickyh
Thanks bud, I'll have to look into it
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