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re: Was the bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki necessary?
Posted on 4/17/18 at 5:24 pm to Draconian Sanctions
Posted on 4/17/18 at 5:24 pm to Draconian Sanctions
quote:
I’ve posted several times links ab how the last Hong stopping peace was that the Emporer wouldn’t be killed or tried as a war criminal
And if this is true you just admitted they didn’t accept our terms.
The fact that we showed mercy to the emperor after the surrender is irrelevant
0
Posted on 4/17/18 at 5:24 pm to Chucktown_Badger
quote:
I don't know how to tell you this, so I'm just going to come out with it.
Well, thanks for just coming out and saying it... I understand this, maybe I should have said, we dropped the bomb to end the war. After we completed our primary focus (Germany), Japan was next. And even just winning the war against Japan would have been a blood bath so dropping the bomb was the best option just to end it.
Posted on 4/17/18 at 5:26 pm to olgoi khorkhoi
quote:
Sure, they were willing to surrender, but only on their own terms. It took 2 freaking cities getting wiped out to bring them around, so I don't want to hear what would have happened "in all probability". If there were so defeated, why didn't they surrender unconditionally when given the option of that and imminent destruction?
Exactly. He is using the fact that we showed mercy to the emperor after the fact to fuel some conspiracy theory that it was never about unconditional surrender
Posted on 4/17/18 at 5:26 pm to Draconian Sanctions
was the bombing of Pearl Harbor necessary?
Posted on 4/17/18 at 5:28 pm to WaWaWeeWa
quote:
Please link the article again
No, I’m sick of posting the same shite over and over. Go back and look for yourself.
Posted on 4/17/18 at 5:28 pm to WaWaWeeWa
quote:
the fact that we showed mercy to the emperor after the fact
What is the difference, in your mind, between the conditional surrender the Japanese offered the Russians vs the unconditional surrender we accepted after the bombs? Other than the words conditional and unconditional.
quote:
to fuel some conspiracy theory
What conspiracy theory? The sticking point for the Japanese was the preservation of the emporer in office and that he wouldn’t be tried as a war criminal or worse. This is exactly what they ended up getting after the bombs.
The »leinancy » thing is hilarious. Why would we give the Japanese leniamcy? We sure as shite didn’t give any to the Germans.
This post was edited on 4/17/18 at 5:33 pm
Posted on 4/17/18 at 5:30 pm to Draconian Sanctions
quote:
No, I’m sick of posting the same shite over and over. Go back and look for yourself.
That’s because it’s NOT THERE
Not someone’s opinion from the nation.com I want you to show me where it is known for a fact that the ONLY thing holding up peace was the emperor being tried as a war criminal.
Posted on 4/17/18 at 5:31 pm to Draconian Sanctions
quote:
What is the difference, in your mind, between the conditional surrender the Japanese offered the Russians vs the unconditional surrender we accepted after the bombs? Other than the words conditional and unconditional.
Well to start... the fact that they surrendered to the Russians and not us
Posted on 4/17/18 at 5:32 pm to Draconian Sanctions
Bull shite.... maybe if they had not attacked Pearl Harbor..... it was message time..... the BIG difference between 9/11 and WW2... we knew who the real enemy was... 9/11 we had NO country to bomb.....
Posted on 4/17/18 at 5:33 pm to WaWaWeeWa
quote:
Well to start... the fact that they surrendered to the Russians and not us
Okay, and that’s worth flattening 2 cities over?
Posted on 4/17/18 at 5:33 pm to Draconian Sanctions
You really hate the USA don't you?
Posted on 4/17/18 at 5:33 pm to Draconian Sanctions
quote:
vilian authorities, especially Truman himself, would later try to revise history by claiming that the bombs were dropped to save the lives of one million American soldiers
Maybe not a million but the Japanese were still fight ferociously. My dad was set to boarding a sea transport the day after the bomb. They cancelled it and he served out his term in the U.S. So many American lives were saved, fact. The Japanese were trying to get Russia to join them, not broker a peace. Later when Russia would not commit to join forces they asked them to broker a deal. Russia undoubtedly knew we were close to having a Atomic Bomb.
Posted on 4/17/18 at 5:33 pm to Draconian Sanctions
quote:
No, I’m saying we could have gotten essentially the same terms before and after the bombs
I believe neither this nor the idea that not a single American life was spared from the usage of atomic bombs. Those bombs ended the war sooner and saved American lives.
Whether or not the decision was morally correct is another topic and one they delves more into philosophy than military strategy.
Posted on 4/17/18 at 5:33 pm to Draconian Sanctions
You need a history lesson.....
Posted on 4/17/18 at 5:33 pm to WaWaWeeWa
quote:
That’s because it’s NOT THERE
Not someone’s opinion from the nation.com I want you to show me where it is known for a fact that the ONLY thing holding up peace was the emperor being tried as a war criminal.
I’ve posted it in this thread twice. Why do I have to keep posting the same thing over and over?
This post was edited on 4/17/18 at 5:36 pm
Posted on 4/17/18 at 5:34 pm to Draconian Sanctions
quote:
In other words, the virtually unanimous and combined judgment of the most informed, senior, officers of the U.S. military is unequivocal: there was no pressing military necessity for dropping the atomic bombs on Japan
That's a popular revisionist argument. The bombs were dropped in August. From April through June, the ~100k garrison at Okinawa had died almost to the last man. The civilian population of Okinawa suffered anywhere from 12 to 50% casualties. American troops suffered extraordinarily high casualties as well, with dead and wounded topping 50k out of a half million man force.
So, yet again, the bare, raw, military facts (not conjecture - facts) support the conclusion that the bombs actually saved lives:
American troops
Japanese troops (about this, there is no question - MILLIONS of Japanese men would have been killed, who ultimately lived)
Japanese civilians - a major campaign against the home islands would likely have killed several hundred thousand Japanese innocent women, children and old men just in Tokyo alone.
My evidence? Okinawa.
The Japanese were NOT suing for peace. There was a lot of dissension that we didn't know about. Parts of the government wanted to surrender. Much of the military wanted to fight on - as it is HUNDREDS of senior officers killed themselves rather than surrender.
The navel-gazing, handwringing, Japanese apologists never seem to ask if bombing Pearl Harbor was necessary.
This post was edited on 4/17/18 at 5:36 pm
Posted on 4/17/18 at 5:35 pm to Brazos
quote:
You really hate the USA don't you?
of course not In order to love my country must I accept any and all narratives it’s puts out without any critical analysis whatsoever?
This post was edited on 4/17/18 at 5:36 pm
Posted on 4/17/18 at 5:37 pm to Ace Midnight
quote:
The navel-gazing, handwringing, Japanese apologists never seem to ask if bombing Pearl Harbor was necessary.
What a stupid fricking comment. Of course that wasn’t necessary. What kind of a discussion is a thread on that going to start?
Questioning the Truman rationale is not a defense of Japan.
This post was edited on 4/17/18 at 5:38 pm
Posted on 4/17/18 at 5:38 pm to Draconian Sanctions
rest of his post made a pretty convincing point, I found.
Posted on 4/17/18 at 5:39 pm to Ross
I actually was going to respond but that last comment just pisses me off to no end. So fricking stupid.
Almost as bad as « you must hate the USA »
Almost as bad as « you must hate the USA »
This post was edited on 4/17/18 at 5:40 pm
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